Has anyone else read this article?

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

He clearly was, as it turns out he was wrong. Would anyone one of us do exactly the same thing? Most likely, but then that would also make us foolish for doing so when it turned out that we were wrong to trust them at their word. Was it unreasonable for him to do so? I don't think so. But it is still his responsibility that he decided their word was good enough for HIS customers.

In the case of the supermarkets with nuts, I am pretty certain that a third party can check and accredit suppliers as maintaining a reasonable practice in the matter - in the UK it might well be the Trading Standards or some such. Things do fall through the net, and even in these cases the supermarket can certainly blame the supplier, but they also apologise to their own customers that they let them down.

Just because it is not feasable to do it, does not mean that the responsibility lies elsewhere. The seller is responsible to their customers. End of. You have to do all that feel is required to make sure that your customers are getting what they deserve. How much that is will vary, of course. For example, I buy lard from a very well known Austrian brand from a company that supplies to catering and so on. I am fairly certain it is lard. If it turns out to be something else, I will be responsible to my customers for that. I will of course go to my supplier and they will be responsible to me - but my customers are my own responsibility. It's up to me what I do regarding their expectations and

 

[Dharlee]

I see both sides, but I have to lean more toward agreeing with Dixie here. I am a silversmith and sell jewelry. I make some pieces that are gold filled and will eventually work my way into gold. I buy my supplies from whole-sellers I trust and have checked out to the best of my ability, but I cannot afford to have testing done on each and every product I use. For example, if I use Swarovski crystals, they now claim to be made lead free. I have not paid the thousands of dollars to run independent lab tests to confirm that they are indeed lead free, but instead have trusted the company that makes them and makes the claim. If I had to do that I would simply put- be out of business. That is ONE example of many. Suppose I had to test the purity of each item I use? is gold filled actually 20 parts gold and that karat amount 14k? 12k? Is this indeed sterling silver? Argentium? Are these pearl indeed genuine fresh water pearls? The list goes on and on. And must we do this each and every time we purchase? Suppose the wholesale company decides to start cheating their customers in June? In May you had good product, but now that it's June it is sub standard. As a middle man, yes we have some responsibility, but where does it end? Where do we draw the line? This is another reason insurance is so vital to business.

 

[IrishLass]

This Dr. Pappas works for DoTerra.

From what I understand, Dr. Pappas wants nothing to do with DoTerra (he actually works for Essential Oil University). I remember reading an article last year or so where he wanted to sue DoTerra because they were fraudulently using his name in their promotion literature in order to give themselves credibility. I think that their actions of throwing his name around makes it seem as if he views them in a positive light, but if I'm remembering things correctly from the article I read, he doesn't view them in a positive light at all. I'll see if I can find the article.

Edited to add, I remembered incorrectly....he had a beef against Young Living (which in my mind is pretty much synonymous with DoTerra in spite of being offshoots from each other): http://www.utahstories.com/2014/08/...-and-doterras-essential-oils-are-adulterated/



IrishLass

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Again, I'm not saying that you should check each one - but what if a customer asks you to prove they are what you claim? You'd have to go to the supplier.

As it is, your customers likely trust that you are providing what you say you are. In the EO example, the customer doesn't know who the wholesaler is, so they have to trust reseller. If their trust turns out to be misplaced, it was the trust in you, not in your supplier.

How much due diligence is enough? Depends on the situation. Parts for planes would require more than parts for coffee grinders to some degree. Should everyone be checking everything to the nth degree? No, that's just not practical. But does the seller have to own the trust placed in them and not just shrug and look at the supplier? Very much so.

 

[Dharlee]

Just wow. Oh what a tangled web, huh?

And Gent, yes, I agree with your statement.

 

[Soapmaker145]

I'm with Dixie on this one. There is no way for a small business person to verify the authenticity of the supplies they get. For many things, we lack a proper testing method. The FDA has an extensive validation process designed to ensure that all drugs/devices on the US market meet the established standards that were presented to them at the time of approval. Even this process is dependent on a good bit of trust. The FDA holds companies responsible for any material they import. They have to validate it before accepting it into their process by doing testing on random samples and maintaining proper and extensive records. The FDA actually inspects sites and checks anything and everything they want to, not just in the US but also at manufacturing sites overseas. They stay as long as they feel is necessary and talk to anybody and everybody. The idea is you won't cheat if you are going to all this trouble. At the end of the day, people still find a way to cheat. They only get caught when they kill people because it triggers an immediate investigation with extensive testing to identify the source of the problem which usually uncovers fake tests.

There is no way to do the same thing for compounds and materials that are more generic in nature. Many oils can be mixed without significantly altering their profile. Idiot companies get caught when they use synthetic solvents. At the end of the day, we have to trust that the people we are buying from have a way to verify the source and quality of the material they are selling us particularly when they claim they do that at multiple stages in their process. Otherwise, the world just stops.

That guy is an idiot to get involved with an MLM company regardless of who set up their QC after what he went through with ED.

 

[coffeetime]

I saw this guys rant posted on the HSCG Facebook page looking for thoughts, and to me the Doterra "giveaway" at the end was suspicious.
Also, it terms of liability, doesn't it become a chain of responsibility? Like the soapmaker is responsible to their customers but then the supplier is responsible to the soapmaker(their customer). So everyone takes a piece of the blame, with the bulk of it going to the originator. Does that sound right?

 

[TeresaT]

Hahahahahahaha the orange what??

Sorry. The gamma lock bucket. It's actually a white bucket with a bright orange lid. They have several colors. The orange was the loudest.

 

[Steve85569]

I saw this guys rant posted on the HSCG Facebook page looking for thoughts, and to me the Doterra "giveaway" at the end was suspicious.
Also, it terms of liability, doesn't it become a chain of responsibility? Like the soapmaker is responsible to their customers but then the supplier is responsible to the soapmaker(their customer). So everyone takes a piece of the blame, with the bulk of it going to the originator. Does that sound right?

The chain of responsibility goes to the one with the deepest pockets. If someone sues the soaper the soaper sues the supplier who sues his supplier until you get to the one that actually had intent of wrong doing. So far - as much as I can tell - there are only accusations and rumours flying about.
The "special grade (r)" of EO's is a registered trademark statement made by companies ( the statement varies from company to company) that allows them to say their oils are different than the competition. If an EO is pure and what it says it is then it is the same from supplier to supplier. There are several different types of cinnamon for example. Some are just not the same tree but to the inexperienced nose the differences may not be detected. If a supplier knowingly substitutes one for the other he would be guilty of blatant fraud. If one of the suppliers workers mistakenly puts the lesser quality product in the wrong bottle the wrong doing is latent rather than blatant.

Hope that completely muddies the water for everyone.:mrgreen:

 

[lovinglife]

So I don't trust the guy writing about this, do we know did they test oil already repackaged or straight out of the bottle it came from with ED? Just wondering if the guy repackaging it actually cut it with something else to make more profit. Then to cover his rear he is attacking ED. I don't know, all I know is it smells fishy to me. I didn't hear about the lye problem, that concerns me as I have two more bottles in my supply room. So far all my soap has turned out great.

 

[MissBee]

So I don't trust the guy writing about this, do we know did they test oil already repackaged or straight out of the bottle it came from with ED? Just wondering if the guy repackaging it actually cut it with something else to make more profit. Then to cover his rear he is attacking ED. I don't know, all I know is it smells fishy to me. I didn't hear about the lye problem, that concerns me as I have two more bottles in my supply room. So far all my soap has turned out great.

I didn't see anything when I searched the forum about the lye issue. Perhaps some more people can chime in about that, since apparently a member of ours got it tested?

 

[Susie]

Here is what ED said about this whole hullabaloo:


Essential Depot
Yesterday at 3:28pm ·
NOTE: If you see anyone claiming Essential Depot Essential Oils are not 100% pure:
Let them know in no uncertain terms that they are in fact 100% pure, and we would kindly ask that you report them to us at [email protected]
We will be publishing GC (Gas Chromatograph) reports on December 7th as promised. Thanks in advance to our thousands of loyal customers.
Visit http://www.closesttonature.com to understand all about our Essential Oils (and remember they are not intended for internal use).

 

[Arimara]

I do not know tha validity of the website I'm looking at but should this raise alarms?

http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Utah/Salt-Lake-County-UT/Daniel-Eli-Kidwell.6122159.html

I'm not the best for research but I'm starting to really think this guy may not be what he is presenting himself to be. He could very well be someone trying to make a living and getting his life straight but is really lacking in the know how.

 

[annalee2003]

I do not know tha validity of the website I'm looking at but should this raise alarms?

http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Utah/Salt-Lake-County-UT/Daniel-Eli-Kidwell.6122159.html

I'm not the best for research but I'm starting to really think this guy may not be what he is presenting himself to be. He could very well be someone trying to make a living and getting his life straight but is really lacking in the know how.

In his "about" section on his website (blog?), he mentions that he had an unfortunate past. Didn't go into detail about it, but that mugshot may have been a part of what he mentioned. Not sure when the article he wrote was published, so I'm not sure if that mugshot was taken before or after.
.... Is there somewhere stating where he is from? Because there are a lot of people with similar names.

Edit: Nevermind. Didn't realize there was a photo of him on his site. Looks like the same guy.

 

[Arimara]

In his "about" section on his website (blog?), he mentions that he had an unfortunate past. Didn't go into detail about it, but that mugshot may have been a part of what he mentioned. Not sure when the article he wrote was published, so I'm not sure if that mugshot was taken before or after.
.... Is there somewhere stating where he is from? Because there are a lot of people with similar names.

Edit: Nevermind. Didn't realize there was a photo of him on his site. Looks like the same guy.

That lessens my worries a bit. He may just be in need of life lessons for business owners.

 

[gigisiguenza]

He states in the article (which was published just a few days ago) that he's had a bad past and that he straightened his life out, went to school, has a family now, etc. Personally I don't think his past has diddly to do with what his current issue is. He feels he was defrauded and that he has proof that it was intentional, and that this intentional fraud led to the loss of his reputation and business.

Now whether or not he has a case or not, is up to the courts. Whether ED has been internationally defrauding their customers is up to the courts. All I know is this is not the first issue regarding their products that I've seen discussed, not just EOs, and i was leary of buying from them before this. All this did was add to my already existing distrust of them.

Also, in regards to whatever the ED site has put out stating basically if you see someone saying our stuff is fake, tell on them by emailing their identity to X. This in itself is so unprofessional and downright high school that I'm flabbergasted.

I know I was reluctant to buy from them before this, I was more so after this, and that last bit about sending detractors info to them sealed the deal for me.

I have no desire to do biz with a company that handles their legal disputes or detractors with the same level of professionalism as the average sophomore.

 

[snappyllama]

I agree. ED's response was not how I would expect a reputable company to act. They should come forward to assure their customers that their EOs are unadulterated by providing lab tests. Mud slinging and inviting others to sling mud makes them look just as dirty as their detractors.

I previously steered clear of ED from hearing about how they handled the lye problem. Also their spokesperson on youtube... it makes me question their judgement.

As far as their detractor's blog post goes, I couldn't make it through the whole thing... I guess the gist was: he buys big quantities of EOs and repackages them with a vast mark up into itty-bitty bottles. His beef with ED is that the EOs weren't pure. I checked out his website where he is advising people to use EOs neat while making unsubstantiated health claims and advising people to consume EOs (and I assume ED is not a food-safe facility).

I hope ED hasn't been defrauding their customers. I hope ED figures out how to handle customer service. I hope Earth's Love goes out of business. Quickly.

 

[gigisiguenza]

It's incredibly disappointing to see so much evidence of people's lack of integrity and professionalism, and so much evidence of their blatant greed.

My kids have been teasing me for years about my "hippie" mindset, and how I should go live in a commune LOL. According to them, I'm better suited to living among artists in a barter based environment than I am living among normal folk in a capitalist society.

I used to laugh at them when I was younger, but the older I get the more I think they may be right.

 

[Dana89]

Is anyone still reading this guys blog? He posted a conversation that he taped "secretly" with Doterra's head honchos. It seems that they had a shady deal with The Perfumery, and he is bringing down Dr Pappa's with him. I would post a link to the Conversation but I am sure it is illegally taped convo, but you can hear it if you go to the same page.
My god it is like the E.O business is ran by the mob!

 

[Steve85569]

Me thinks that something is just not right here.
The lye I got in from ED is good so far. I do keep it dry and in a giant zip lock bag.
The EO's from them behave the same as the ones from the two other companies we trade with.
Does this mean that they're all "dirty"?!?