Glycerin method cloudiness after cooking

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sarahcycled

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I researched the heck out of this glycerin method before attempting it. I watched what seems to be the inky 2 videos about it on YouTube and I have Failor's book.

I tried combining one if Failor's recipes ( percentages only b/c I didn't want to waste that much paste if it went awry) I used about 48% coconut oil and 52% olive oil for a 2 lb batch. I then ran it though the BB calculator for liquid soaps and used the suggested water quantity for the glycerin. When everything mixed together, I blended until little bubbles started flying and let it cook on low in a crockpot-- stirring every half hour and testing for cloudiness. 3.5 hours later and it's as cloudy as milk.

I'm almost certain I did the method right....so what did I do wrong? Is there anything I can do to try to save this batch?

FYI, I made it last night and after it kept clouding, I just turned off the crockpot and went to bed.
 

lsg

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I usually test with Phenol P solution. I cook for a couple of hours and test the paste, if the solution turns the paste pink, I cook another 30 minutes and check. If the paste still turns pink with the Phenol P, turn off the heat and let the soap set in the crockpot until it tests neutral.
 

Dorado

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Strange.
But I can tell you how I do.
Lye in glycerine - boil until disolved. Cool of to 150F
Heat oil to 150F
Mix oil and lye/glycerine at 150F (the temp will now rice to about 195-200F)
Stir (without heat on) until trace, first dark, then firm, last like honey with flying bubbles, within 5-15 min.
Tap on, Leave in crockpot on low 1½-2 hours until neutral. It now looks like clear honey.
Dilute with dem. water same temperature as soappaste.
Leave in pot, without heat on, until next day, and you shold have a nice and clear GLS
 

jcandleattic

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When I made mine, I didn't "cook" it. I melted the oils in the crock, then added my glycerin/lye and had the crock on until I got the bubbles and trace then turned the crock off, put a lid on it and let it sit until morning.
The paste wasn't completely clear, just translucent, but once I diluted the paste, the final product is clear.
 

sarahcycled

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I don't have any Pheno P yet. I've ordered it but I wanted to try without it anyway. I did everything you suggested (dorado) pretty much. I did notice that after I blended until bubbles cAme..I kept going a little while because I thought it would get thicker...but it actually got thinner and it stayed a lighter brown color. The more I cooked it, there would get a layer of harder lighter color paste and under was a darker brown thin liquid. I'd stir it back in and keep cooking. I did that until there was no liquids stuff...just a paste...but it still turned milky. Did I not put enough lye in? Is there any way to fix it now?
 

Dorado

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I think, if you used B&B's calculator for liquid soap, you should be ok with lye.
When you mix glycerine/lye with oils (best at 150F), a cemical process wil start. You do not need to use a stickblender, a fork or spoon will do.
Whitin 5-15 min. after mixing, this will happend: Temperature will rise to about 195-200F. First, the liquid gets darker, then, it kind of separate, with a thick layer in the bottom, then al the paste will thicken, and then in the end, it will be lighter and liquid again with flying bubbles. All this happends within about 1 minute.
When the soappaste is neutral, after 1½-2 hours on low heat, it will still be very liquid, like fluid honey, while it is still warm.
If you don't dilute it, and let it get cold, it wil be very thick, thicker than firm honey.
I don't know, why your paste is not clear, you might have a lot of airbubbles in there, from the stickblender
My paste looks like honey with pearlshine in, if I let it get cold. But I prefer dilution right away, so I do't have to reheat.
I have only made 9 GLS batches, but non of them are milky after dilution. All very clear.
Sorry about the spelling - hopefully this helped you a bit.

Edit: I have had a thick layer on top of one of my diluted soaps. I believe, it is, because my SF was too high.
You can take this layer of with a spoon, dilute it a bit more, and mix it with the rest of the soap, that is, what I did, and it worked.
 
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sarahcycled

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I just got back home from work and now my soap test is clear. It was just sitting in the crock for about 10 hours with no heat. Is this normal? Should I just have left it off the heat to begin with? Now to the dilution I guess...I have to dilute an almost solid chunk of paste. Any suggestions for dilution? How about a ratio to start off with?
 

jcandleattic

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I just got back home from work and now my soap test is clear. It was just sitting in the crock for about 10 hours with no heat. Is this normal? Should I just have left it off the heat to begin with? Now to the dilution I guess...I have to dilute an almost solid chunk of paste. Any suggestions for dilution? How about a ratio to start off with?

It's normal for mine, because I don't let it heat up in the first place (other than to melt the oils)
As for dilution, that's when I put the paste to heat, I warm up both the paste and the water to dilute.
 

Dorado

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Goood :thumbup: It is perfectly normal. (all soaps like to rest )
I prefere, to dilute while hot, it can be done cold, but it will take longer time.
Soappaste and water same temperature.
Oils dilute differently - Olive more than Coconut.
I would start with 50% of soappaste. If you have 2lb soappaste, add 1lb dem. water. (tap water will make it milky)
stir a bit, leave it over night in room temp, and se, if you need to dilute more tomorrow.
Remember notes for next time. Good luck
 

Dorado

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It's normal for mine, because I don't let it heat up in the first place (other than to melt the oils)
As for dilution, that's when I put the paste to heat, I warm up both the paste and the water to dilute.

But don't you heat up the glycerine to disolve the KOH ?

I would like to try one day, to just let it sit over night, without heating after I have mixed the oils and lye.
 

jcandleattic

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But don't you heat up the glycerine to disolve the KOH ?

I would like to try one day, to just let it sit over night, without heating after I have mixed the oils and lye.

Yes, I heat the glycerin then add the lye, then add the lye solution to the hot oils, keep the crock on low while stirring. Once I get to the little bubbles stage, I turn the crock off, cover it with the lid and let it set up and do it's thing until the next morning, day, whatever, check it to make sure it's paste (it always is), then I either dilute or bottle the paste depending on when I want to dilute.
 

Dorado

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Ok, jcandleattic, Thought so.
Must try it - seems like your way saves a bit on electricitybill.
 

sarahcycled

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Thanks guys! I am curious why there isn't that much info out there about this method. Is it harder? More expensive? More dangerous? Since I've never done liquid soap before I'm curious.
 

Dorado

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By coincidence I bumped into a looooooong thread on another forum, filled with enthusiasm, , I just had to try it.
I've read a lot about GLS here and there and everywhere, so continue searching.
I've never tryed without glycerin, which is quite expensive in EU. Maybe I shold try with water too,
someone told me experience is a good teacher
 

Smee

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Yes, I heat the glycerin then add the lye, then add the lye solution to the hot oils, keep the crock on low while stirring. Once I get to the little bubbles stage, I turn the crock off, cover it with the lid and let it set up and do it's thing until the next morning, day, whatever, check it to make sure it's paste (it always is), then I either dilute or bottle the paste depending on when I want to dilute.


This sounds too easy...there must be something I missed so I am going
to have to try it to see. Thank you for explaining so well!

How long is "whatever"? I'm going to guess over 12 hours... Is there a
"that's-too-long" time to leave it sit?
 

jcandleattic

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Thanks guys! I am curious why there isn't that much info out there about this method. Is it harder? More expensive? More dangerous? Since I've never done liquid soap before I'm curious.

I think it's because it's relatively "new" method of doing liquid soap and that's why there isn't a ton of info on it. I could be wrong about that though, but I only heard about this method about 6-9 months ago myself.
IMO it is very much easier than the traditional water/neutralize/dilute method.
More expensive? Maybe since you use glycerin initially and not just water, but not by a whole lot.
And nope, not any more dangerous than working with a water/lye solution. You still have to be careful and follow proper safety methods.
This has been my experience anyway.
 

jcandleattic

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This sounds too easy...there must be something I missed so I am going
to have to try it to see. Thank you for explaining so well!

How long is "whatever"? I'm going to guess over 12 hours... Is there a
"that's-too-long" time to leave it sit?

Yeah, I wait at least 12 hours. Not because I have too just because I usually start the process late in the afternoon. So "whatever" means whenever I get the chance to get to it. LOL I don't know if there is a "too early" time to leave it sit, as long as it has become paste, but once it's paste and stored properly it can remain paste for MONTHS before dilution, so nope, there isn't a "that's too long to wait" time.

HTH
 

Smee

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You are awesome, jcandleattic!

This will save major time, frustration, and electricity!
To me, Stored Properly means in mason jar in the fridge...?
Or can you leave it on a shelf in the basement?
 

jcandleattic

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You are awesome, jcandleattic!

This will save major time, frustration, and electricity!
To me, Stored Properly means in mason jar in the fridge...?
Or can you leave it on a shelf in the basement?

I am not 100% sure on that, but I *think* as long as it is airtight on a shelf in the basement should be fine.
I've heard people doing both (fridge and not) and all said the paste has been fine...
I store mine on a shelf in the basement, and it has been fine, but I also don't sell... I will make sure of the correct method before I do so though.
 
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