Soulboy1973
Well-Known Member
Yeah it probably will but it will be flippin expensive with all those oils I can't just get off the shelf. Also it is probably more complicated for someone of my skill level.
Giving up
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penelopejane
Well-Known Member
I thought you wanted to produce a nice soap you can use quickly. It’s not complicated: melt the hard oils and warm the soft oils. Castile is a great soap but it takes 12 months to cure. Good thing is that it needs no FO.
Soulboy1973
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
Try this place for supplies: https://tinyurl.com/y62n3c5z
Personally I think it’s better to make 4 bars of nice soap than 20 bars of unusable soap. Go for plain soap until you perfect a recipe then bother about swirls. Saves heaps on mica!
Soulboy1973
Well-Known Member
Thanks again.
If the recipe of 16 oz of each (OO, CO, Palm) and 2 oz of Castor with 16.5 oz water and 7.3 oz lye set up too quickly for you to do what you wanted to do it could be due to various things. You could try using the default setting of 38% water as percent of oils instead of using the 33%. I put the numbers side-by-side and you'll see that there was 2.5 oz less of water in what you went by; less water is ONE of the factors that causes less time to work blending colors and FO and with working with your design. I'm assuming this recipe is what set up quicker than you wished.
Total oil weight 50 oz
Water as percent of oil weight 38.00 %
Super Fat/Discount 4 %
Lye Concentration 27.815 %
Water : Lye Ratio 2.5952:1
Water 19.00
Lye - NaOH 7.32
Total oil weight 50 oz
Water as percent of oil weight 33.00 %
Super Fat/Discount 4 %
Lye Concentration 30.734 %
Water : Lye Ratio 2.2537:1
Water 16.50
Lye - NaOH 7.32 (it didn't work formatted side-by-side so I had to move the info to one under the other)
I know many are giving good advice and pointers in how they are able to keep things fluid enough to do what they wish (blending colors & FO, and accomplishing their design choice). I just thought I'd mention water.
I've used the same recipe for more than one aim and found I use more water if it's going to be something that's gunna take like 20 minutes or so. If I intend to just use one color or two and do a simple pot swirl then I can get away with less water. Up until recently I usually always used less than 38%. Now that I'm wanting to attempt some techniques that require a lot of time I'm using more water and soaping cooler than I have in the 3 years I've been making soap. And I use the SB only very briefly, if at all.
Soulboy1973
Well-Known Member
That is brilliant, thank you very much. I will try adding more water and let you know how I get on.
When you enter your oils just try (once anyway) with the preset 38% instead of changing it to 33%. I'm assuming you are from the numbers of oils/water/lye. Don't, please, randomly add 'x' amount of water because too much is not a good thing either.That is brilliant, thank you very much. I will try adding more water and let you know how I get on.
Soulboy1973
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I am actually only using tried and tested recipies that I find on the internet, I'm learning, slowly and Soap Calc is just over my head at the moment, I do not have the experience to know what oil does what in a soap batch, what properties each one brings to a soap, what they are for so everything is a steep learning curve at the moment. Also as I don't wanna sell soap, it is only for my personal pleasure I don't wanna end up with masses of soap around the house. I have close to 100 bars to wade through at the moment...That's a lot of bathing
That is brilliant, thank you very much. I will try adding more water and let you know how I get on.
Penelopejane mentioned this video: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/stickblending-to-emulsion.60618/ and it's a good video to watch.
I knew what to look for quite a few months ago when working up to challenging myself to move away from my comfort zone but my problem was doubting myself. Despite knowing what to look for, I whisked more and more and was then at a slight trace instead of just emulsion. LOL, I had to do that (I think) 3 times before I forced myself to trust myself and accept that if I was wrong 'so what.' I'd throw it out and keep trying. I was right, however, and could have been successful the first time if I would have only trusted my eyes and stopped.
Soulboy1973
Well-Known Member
That is exactly the same as myself. I know I should stop then think..What if it isn't mixed enough it may not set. Like you say Michele, I need to trust myself and if it goes wrong, hey! No one died, it'll be OK next time.
Thank you. I am actually only using tried and tested recipies that I find on the internet, I'm learning, slowly and Soap Calc is just over my head at the moment, I do not have the experience to know what oil does what in a soap batch, what properties each one brings to a soap, what they are for so everything is a steep learning curve at the moment. Also as I don't wanna sell soap, it is only for my personal pleasure I don't wanna end up with masses of soap around the house. I have close to 100 bars to wade through at the moment...That's a lot of bathing
I don't sell either, just ENJOY the art and science of it. I fell in love with soap making the first time I made it. I have a creative spirit and have used cooking, photography, ceramics, etc in my many years living. Art was my first love and actually had a well-known Indian artist take interest in me and offer to teach me free of charge. Anything that allows me to feed my love for creativity is a joy to my soul. With two young boys, I chose not to pursue my art in my early 20's; what one doesn't use, one loses. I found something that is much more useful than art--soap. We all can use that, right!?!
LOL, my hubby and I have probably enough soap to last 2 lifetimes......I STILL have the NEED to make MORE.
Bless his great big heart, my hubby doesn't mind since it brings me such joy.
LOL, yes, correct........no one died so "soap on" I say!
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Soulboy1973
Well-Known Member
He sounds like a good man. My wife also is very understanding. I have always enjoyed using my hands to make and create things, I hate to be bored, like you making soap is a little piece of a very long line of life interests. Thank you for all the help, it really is very much appreciated.I don't sell either, just ENJOY the art and science of it. I fell in love with soap making the first time I made it. I have a creative spirit and have used cooking, photography, ceramics, etc in my many years living. Art was my first love and actually had a well-known Indian artist take interest in me and offer to teach me free of charge. Anything that allows me to feed my love for creativity is a joy to my soul. With two young boys, I chose not to pursue my art in my early 20's; what one doesn't use, one loses. I found something that is much more useful than art--soap. We all can use that, right!?!
LOL, my hubby and I have probably enough soap to last 2 lifetimes......I STILL have the NEED to make MORE.
Bless his great big heart, my hubby doesn't mind since it brings me such joy.
One of my main pastimes is wet shaving, I'd really love to lern to make my own top quality shaving soap one day, not wishy washy stuff, real artisan, highly moisturizing, thick,glossy shaving soap. That is another thing though. Good shaving soap is expensive to buy, I'm certain with the right recipe I can make my own one day. Artisans guard their recipies with their lives. Finding a good recipe is going to be difficult.
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Marilyn Norgart
Well-Known Member
I have only skimmed thru here sorry. looks like you have gotten a lot of good advice. like I said I only skimmed thru but I will tell you I don't use palm due to the cost--I use lard coconut oil and safflower. I don't know about where you live but these are easy to get off the shelf in the grocery stores and are cheaper and I find it makes a very good soap. have you tried making swirls with out using any FOs?
Soulboy1973
Well-Known Member
No not yet. I live in the UK. I can get Olive, Coconut, Sunflower oils off the shelf, also Lard but things like Palm, Castor, Shea, and other exotic oils and butters I need to order online. It mounts up in cost with the more exotic butters and hard oils. If I could make an attractive soap maybe with just two colours I could recoup my investment. I need to try harder.
Yes, that kind is very expensive. My oldest son has a beard that's past his waist; like my hair has been for decades. My youngest is now growing is out longer than he's had it for over 10 years. They started losing their hair about 20 years old as my husband did; met when he was 24 and me 17 and he at that time had both sides receding pretty noticeably. Both sons shave their heads since the progression was FAST like their dad's but they use plastic razors and foam in a can--ick.
You can find recipes online for shaving soap and I found one years ago on Pinterest that was decent.
I love my soaps with lard in the recipe!! The lather is great!
I love my soaps with lard in them!! Great lather!
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Water is indeed a key player in how the batter behaves. I just wanted to point out that most people here use lye concentration or water:lye ratio as opposed to water as % of oils. Here's a good read that explains the influence of water on your batter and why most soapmakers prefer to calculate water based on the amount of lye in stead of the amount of oils.
That said, have you decided on a recipe for your next batch yet? Honestly if you still have some palm, I'd go for @Mobjack Bay's proposed recipe of 20% coco, 20% palm and 60% high oleic oils. I suggest you run it through a lye calc and we can double-check the result before you make your next batch. That way you get accustomed to using a lye calc, which is always a good idea. Even when I use a recipe from the internet I still run it through a lye calc just to be sure..
That said, have you decided on a recipe for your next batch yet? Honestly if you still have some palm, I'd go for @Mobjack Bay's proposed recipe of 20% coco, 20% palm and 60% high oleic oils. I suggest you run it through a lye calc and we can double-check the result before you make your next batch. That way you get accustomed to using a lye calc, which is always a good idea. Even when I use a recipe from the internet I still run it through a lye calc just to be sure..
I ran your revised recipe from this post through SoapCalc and here’s what I got:
I also ran it through the SoapMakingFriend calculator for comparison:
If you compare the two, you will see that SoapMakingFriend gives you a longevity number that SoapCalc does not. Although coconut oil will make a hard soap, it dissolves quickly in use, so does little for longevity. Fats with high concentrations of palmitic and steric fatty acids - palm, tallow and lard, for example, contribute to longevity and hardness.
I found this article on the Soapy Stuff website to be very useful when I was trying to decide how much water to use in my recipes:
https://classicbells.com/soap/waterInSoap.asp
Here’s your recipe made using less water for comparison with the original version above. The only things that change are the weight of water and the total batch weight.
Based on the oils you said you had on hand, here’s a recipe with palm added so you can see how it changes longevity and the other calculated soap properties. I calculated it using SoapMakingFriend (38% water) and also at 33% lye concentration (28.5% water for this recipe), which is in the range I use.
“Full water” version:
Lower water (33% lye concentration) version:
It’s strictly a coincidence that the needed lye weight does not change compared with the original recipe.
A calculator helps you build recipes with soap qualities in mind, although it may not tell you much about how a soap changes as it cures. The traditional 100% olive oil soap gets better with a long cure and is the classic example of a recipe that looks strange in a calculator:
I also ran it through the SoapMakingFriend calculator for comparison:
If you compare the two, you will see that SoapMakingFriend gives you a longevity number that SoapCalc does not. Although coconut oil will make a hard soap, it dissolves quickly in use, so does little for longevity. Fats with high concentrations of palmitic and steric fatty acids - palm, tallow and lard, for example, contribute to longevity and hardness.
I found this article on the Soapy Stuff website to be very useful when I was trying to decide how much water to use in my recipes:
https://classicbells.com/soap/waterInSoap.asp
Here’s your recipe made using less water for comparison with the original version above. The only things that change are the weight of water and the total batch weight.
Based on the oils you said you had on hand, here’s a recipe with palm added so you can see how it changes longevity and the other calculated soap properties. I calculated it using SoapMakingFriend (38% water) and also at 33% lye concentration (28.5% water for this recipe), which is in the range I use.
“Full water” version:
Lower water (33% lye concentration) version:
It’s strictly a coincidence that the needed lye weight does not change compared with the original recipe.
A calculator helps you build recipes with soap qualities in mind, although it may not tell you much about how a soap changes as it cures. The traditional 100% olive oil soap gets better with a long cure and is the classic example of a recipe that looks strange in a calculator:
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I do too but a good friend of mine who I enjoy helping likes the % but, to me, tells me nothing (!). All recipes will have a liquid (water, milk, beer, rice water, etc and all which I have used) and oils so every recipe will have 'x' percent of oil weight.
I sent sites that explained how much more helpful lye concentration was over % and how much better understanding water:lye ratio is than the %. I gave her my opinions/explanations of how she might better be served not paying much attention to the %. I even tried making a video showing the why's using soapcalc but she likes the % so that's what I'm used to dealing with.....for her. I agree water as percent of oil weight isn't much use. That's why I mentioned my using one same recipe except for the amount of water I used was different (more for longer time and less when time wasn't an issue). Personally, I use less any time I can so it has less to evaporate out and cure. Thanks for pointing that out though
Carly B
Well-Known Member
Gecko, how do you manage to soap so cool with all your butters and hard oils? I only make small batches too, but I've been soaping hotter because the oils get cloudy when they cool off too much. I would love to soap at a cooler temp, but I've been worried that if I do, the hard oils might not get mixed in completely.
