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Gentler, longer-lasting bar without lard

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ilonaliss

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My previous go-to soap recipe (30% CO, 20% OO pomace, 20% palm oil, 13% apricot kernel, 10% shea, and 7% castor; 5% SF, 30% lye) is quite drying and doesn't last very long. Thanks to this forum, I found out that it's likely due to the high CO and (possibly) OO. I also learned that I don't need to superfat all my bars at 5% (revelation!!!) I feel like I learnt more in the past week, just by browsing this forum, than in the year I've been soaping and reading various soaping blogs. SO THANK YOU GUYS!

Anyway, I came up with the below formula, which is meant to be a regular bar for hand washing and showering. The trial batch will be unscented and colorant-free. It's important that the soap its gentle, lathers well and lasts a fair amount of time. We do have very hard water in London, so I just went and ordered some sodium gluconate. I also have citric acid and sodium lactate laying around. I plan to add some sugar for the bubbles, and leave the soap covered and insulated on my kitchen counter.

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

Ps. I also plan to experiment with a lard-based soap , but I'll put that in a separate thread.
 

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Zany_in_CO

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WELCOME, ilonaliss! Well done. Looks good to me! :thumbs:

However, I don't use sodium gluconate, citric acid, sodium lactate or sugar in my hard bars, so I'll leave it to others to speak to those additives. :videovisit:

HAPPY SOAPING!
 

ridnovir

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try the following in soap calc: instead of RBO - high oleic sunflower oil at 20, decrease Palm to 30 and either add 10 to cocoa butter or add 10 in kokum butter - that should increase the hardness (ie help with longevity).
 

Arimara

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Try changing that lye concentration unless you're making HP soap. Even then, you could get away with a little less liquid for that. Given the current recipe, I'd try 30-33% depending on how you soap. Otherwise, it looks fine.
 

cmzaha

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I would leave your recipe as is other than the lye concentration. I would change it to 30%. Your recipe is similar to mine although I only use 9-10% with 40% Palm in my Vegan recipe. The RBO is fine in my opinion. I personally like PKO/CO split and actually go a tad high percentage with the split and still total a cleansing factor of 12. I find PKO a tad gentler than CO and love it combined. But you will not know if you like the recipe if you do not try it. It is certainly a decent recipe you came up with.
 

ilonaliss

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thank you for the warm welcome and all your suggestions! :)

@ridnovir, I would be interested to try your formula because I do have kokum butter on hand, but I just cannot seem to find high oleic oils anywhere. Or maybe I am looking in the wrong places? 😬 PKO is also quite hard to find and much more expensive than PO in the UK..

I have never worked with such a high % of hard oils and butters and got a bit freaked out, hence the high water, but if you think around 30% should be fine, I will try that. I usually soap cool (85-95 F)- would this recipe benefit from higher temperatures? Also, if I was to make another test batch using 4% lanolin, which oil is it best to take away from?
 

DeeAnna

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Look for high oleic oils in your grocery store. They might not be clearly labeled as "high oleic" but they will often say "good for frying" or sauteeing. Or "high temperature". Or something like that. At least here in the US, the grocery stores often sell sunflower, safflower, or canola in their HO versions.

Another thing to check if the words don't help, is the percentage of monounsaturated fat. If you want to buy a HO oil, you want the monounsaturated fat to be well over 50% of the total fat.

See the photo for a nutrition label for safflower oil. The total fat per serving is 14 grams. The monounsaturated is 11 grams. I can tell 11 grams is way over half of the total fat, even without a calculator. This would be a high oleic fat.

HOsafflowerNutritionLabel.jpg
 

Marsi

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I have never worked with such a high % of hard oils and butters and got a bit freaked out, hence the high water, but if you think around 30% should be fine, I will try that. I usually soap cool (85-95 F)- would this recipe benefit from higher temperatures? Also, if I was to make another test batch using 4% lanolin, which oil is it best to take away from?
30% will give you a good working time for this recipe
glycerin rivers, ash and overheating are less of a problem in the lye concentration range of 30% to 33%

when the fats cool to 30C to 35C (your soaping range) they may cloud a little
the mixture will heat up again when you add your lye solution

if your lye solution is cold or cool the mixture will thicken or cloud when you add it
it will thin out again as the reaction starts and the mixture heats up
feel for the increase in heat and look for a stable emulsion to know that you are avoiding false trace

to include the 4% lanolin i would adjust the recipe by reducing mostly the palm with a little off the rbo
your recipe feel will change with this addition

it is nice to keep a bar to test after a long cure
 

cmzaha

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The 30% really will not give a good extended working time but it helps, without the worries of glycerin rivers. The fatty acid profile of my recipe is slightly different, being a little lower in stearic and palmitic, and I can get 2 color swirls but I really push it to get 3 colors other than the original batter color and the third color. Just be prepared to not do several intricate swirls.

You also do want to be prepared for false trace, but it will warm up, just stir through it, if you use room temp or cooler lye. It really helps to check temps keeping a record so eventually, you will find the sweet spot for your working temps if you like the recipe since working too hot can accelerate trace.

If I were tweaking the recipe at all I would probably lower RBO to 20% and the Cocoa Butter to 7% and add in regular Canola if that is all you can find since Canola is considerably lower in Palmitic versus RBO. Using regular Canola at 15% or less never caused me DOS issues which I used for years up to 20% in soap. I did eventually change to HO when I found it locally available in 35 lb totes.

Test test test is the name of the game in soapmaking. :nodding:
 

ilonaliss

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So I was looking in the wrong places! Thanks @DeeAnna, I'll be on a lookout for those high monounsat fats next time I'm in a supermarket.

@Marsi and @cmzaha thanks for your feedback- I feel like I'm so much more prepared to take on this recipe now :cool: I really want to try lanolin in soap for that unique skin feel. It never occurred to me to use canola in soap (or cooking)- I will check it out!
 
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Zing

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Your recipe looks good to me! I recently made soap using a very similar ingredient list and it was definitely longer-lasting than other recipes. Let us know how it goes!
 

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