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Crazylady

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Ive bought and used fragrance oils in my cp soap but have recently bought an oil that in Ifra it states the percentage to be used in soap is 1.33%. I presume this means only 1.33% of the total volume of the soap is safe to be used or am I wrong. If I am right I think that the fragrance will be very weak so I’m wondering about changing my fragrance
 

shunt2011

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I use the percentage based on my oils not the entire recipe. I don’t purchase anything that has less than 6% usage except one and it’s 2.6 and sticks well.
 

lsg

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Same here. I base the percent used on the total oil/fats weight.
 

EllieMae

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I also assume the percentage as % of total oils. I try not to buy anything under 4% usage (preferably 6% though) and when testing new scents with a lower % I start with a 30ml sample size to see how it performs before committing to a larger volume.
 

paradisi

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IFRA standards are for total product weight.

IFRA is voluntary, only applies to its members, blah blah, but their standards refer to the entire product.

Ive bought and used fragrance oils in my cp soap but have recently bought an oil that in Ifra it states the percentage to be used in soap is 1.33%. I presume this means only 1.33% of the total volume of the soap is safe to be used or am I wrong. If I am right I think that the fragrance will be very weak so I’m wondering about changing my fragrance
 

Todd Ziegler

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I use the percentage based on my oils not the entire recipe. I don’t purchase anything that has less than 6% usage except one and it’s 2.6 and sticks well.
Could you expand on this reply a little more? I am curious about the 6% or more for your FO's. I think I know why you do it but I would love to hear your reasoning.
 

cmzaha

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IFRA standards are for total product weight.

IFRA is voluntary, only applies to its members, blah blah, but their standards refer to the entire product.
Sounds like you feel about IFRA as I do. When I started soaping we did not have IFRA guidelines we used common sense. It is not a mandatory requirement that fo's have to be submitted to the IFRA. It does apply to the entire product.
 

DeeAnna

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Not Shari, but here's my reasoning --

I want the option to use enough fragrance to get a strong scent in my soap. If I use most FOs at less than about 6%, the scent isn't usually strong enough. Since I think the IFRA guidelines are based on sound reasoning, I respect those guidelines and don't buy scents with an IFRA % of less than about 6%.

Paradisi and Carolyn are correct that IFRA guidelines are based on total product weight, not fat weight. IFRA guidelines apply to many different products that may or may not have any fats in them, so it makes no sense to use a soap maker's outlook when setting the guidelines.

One reason why many soapers base the amount of additives (including fragrance) on the fat weight is that the fat weight doesn't change over time. The total weight of a soap bar does change due to water evaporation during cure.

If you choose to base your fragrance calculation on the total weight, you really need to estimate the amount of water loss when calculating the weight of scent to use. You want the scent % to be correct at the time the consumer receives the soap, not at the time the soap is made.

If you only use scents with a high IFRA percentage, that builds in a safety margin. If you base the amount of scent on the weight of fats, that also builds in a safety margin.
 

shunt2011

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Could you expand on this reply a little more? I am curious about the 6% or more for your FO's. I think I know why you do it but I would love to hear your reasoning.
What DeeAnna said. Exactly what/why I do it. I use 6% in all my soaps except really strong ones. In salt bars I use as much as 7% as I find the fragrance fades more in salt soap depending on the scent.
 

Todd Ziegler

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Not Shari, but here's my reasoning --

I want the option to use enough fragrance to get a strong scent in my soap. If I use most FOs at less than about 6%, the scent isn't usually strong enough. Since I think the IFRA guidelines are based on sound reasoning, I respect those guidelines and don't buy scents with an IFRA % of less than about 6%.

Paradisi and Carolyn are correct that IFRA guidelines are based on total product weight, not fat weight. IFRA guidelines apply to many different products that may or may not have any fats in them, so it makes no sense to use a soap maker's outlook when setting the guidelines.

One reason why many soapers base the amount of additives (including fragrance) on the fat weight is that the fat weight doesn't change over time. The total weight of a soap bar does change due to water evaporation during cure.

If you choose to base your fragrance calculation on the total weight, you really need to estimate the amount of water loss when calculating the weight of scent to use. You want the scent % to be correct at the time the consumer receives the soap, not at the time the soap is made.

If you only use scents with a high IFRA percentage, that builds in a safety margin. If you base the amount of scent on the weight of fats, that also builds in a safety margin.
Thanks, this really cleared up a lot of questions that I had about FO's.
What DeeAnna said. Exactly what/why I do it. I use 6% in all my soaps except really strong ones. In salt bars I use as much as 7% as I find the fragrance fades more in salt soap depending on the scent.
Thanks, one more question. I have a couple of flavoring oils from Wholesale supplies plus and they say in their description that they are safe in soap, for example their bubble gum says up to 20% for CP soap. Do you think that is a mistake on their part or it is correct?
 

shunt2011

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Thanks, this really cleared up a lot of questions that I had about FO's.
Thanks, one more question. I have a couple of flavoring oils from Wholesale supplies plus and they say in their description that they are safe in soap, for example their bubble gum says up to 20% for CP soap. Do you think that is a mistake on their part or it is correct?
It's likely correct. I have some FO's that say 100%. Doesn't mean you should use them that high though. They will likely seep out/separate your batter at some point.
 

DeeAnna

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IFRA is about recommended amounts for personal safety only.

IFRA guidelines don't tell you anything about how much a soap maker should use when making a particular product. The manufacturer has to make that call.

Generally speaking, I'm wary of loading up the soap with too much fragrance, because there's some risk of making the soap physically softer by including too much not-soap liquid , or the overall performance of the soap being affected, or even the fragrance weeping out (rare, but I've had it happen).
 

Crazylady

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thankyou all for your input. I think I will but my fragrance oils with more caution
 

LilyJo

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Can I just add my usual, if you are intending to sell please ignore the 5-6% recommendations from US soapers. A safety assessment will specify more like a max of 2% depending on the product.

If its for personal use you can use your own judgement but if its it's a gift or sample please stick to uk/eu recommendations.
 

DeeAnna

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"...A safety assessment will specify more like a max of 2% ..."

I take it that UK assessors don't give any importance to IFRA guidelines, then? Just curious and a little surprised -- I would think the guidelines would be a useful resource to assessors.
 

Vickyn

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Does anyone have any tips for FO or EO that don't hold their scent? I've only had problems with vanilla and orange scents fading quickly.
I've tried the kaolin clay trick, which has improved the scent longevity, but not enough. Are there any other scents I need to watch out for or tips on improving longevity?
 

Vickyn

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Can I just add my usual, if you are intending to sell please ignore the 5-6% recommendations from US soapers. A safety assessment will specify more like a max of 2% depending on the product.

If its for personal use you can use your own judgement but if its it's a gift or sample please stick to uk/eu recommendations.
Hey @LilyJo
I don't sell, but interested in your comment just for learning. So if I understand you correctly, FOs that recommend a 6% usage at purchase, should be used at 2% max if selling them for safety reasons in Europe. It's that correct?
Where are the recommendations for this? EU sales legislation or health and safety? I deal with international sales for my day job, (although it's not in soap or toiletries) so I'd be interested in reading it.
 

LilyJo

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"...A safety assessment will specify more like a max of 2% ..."

I take it that UK assessors don't give any importance to IFRA guidelines, then? Just curious and a little surprised -- I would think the guidelines would be a useful resource to assessors.
Yes they take IFRA into account but it's based more on the allergens in each fragrance so something with cinnamon included might be at 0.5% but another fragrance could be 2.5. I think, and obviously I'm not an assessor, the general accepted max fragrance in the EU and UK is around 3%.
Hey @LilyJo
I don't sell, but interested in your comment just for learning. So if I understand you correctly, FOs that recommend a 6% usage at purchase, should be used at 2% max if selling them for safety reasons in Europe. It's that correct?
Where are the recommendations for this? EU sales legislation or health and safety? I deal with international sales for my day job, (although it's not in soap or toiletries) so I'd be interested in reading it.
For any cosmetic that is sold in the EU or UK it must have a safety assessment or CPSR before it can be placed for sale.

Essentially, each recipe is submitted to a qualified assessor who will check the ingredients are safe, comply with EU product restrictions and provide a legal report that says the product - as submitted - is safe. You cannot go outside of that assessment I.e change a fragrance.

When you submit your recipe the assessor will check that your fragrance complies with EU rules and that its composition and usage does not exceed EU recommendations which is why we often end up with a fragrance limit of around 2%. HTH.
 

paradisi

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I'm curious who makes the safety decisions for the EU, or more precisely, what they base their decisions on. Funny that IFRA, the 500lb gorilla of fragrance policing, is overruled now by a political body.

To my knowledge no-one has ever died because of a fragranced soap; but people die every year from eating peanuts, shellfish, strawberries etc. You can still buy all those everywhere, even in the EU, right?
Basil contains more of the carcinogenic compound that gets spice oils banned, than you'd be exposed to in cosmetics or soap, oranges contain more citral, etc. Are restaurants in the EU prevented from using those foods? Food processors? If not, why not? The disparity in real and perceived dangers is interesting.

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion :)
 
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