Fragrance Oil Lockup

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PARTSBILL

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So I made my second batch of coast soap. doubled it this time. Went to just before it started to trace added the FO and it locked up 90% solid!!!! Almost didn't get it into the mold fast enough. Got to come up with a different plan.
 

Rachelmf

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Some fragrance oils will do that to you, unfortunately!
 

KimW

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Aweee Naaooooooo! Surely there was some difference between the successful first batch and this one? % of FO? Temperature?

So sorry this happened, but glad you were able to get it into the mold.
 

PARTSBILL

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Aweee Naaooooooo! Surely there was some difference between the successful first batch and this one? % of FO? Temperature?

The first batch hardened kinda quik but was able to catch it. 2nd batch was doubled as was the FO. extra FO must have done it. GOT to try something else. Who makes the best cp soap stable fragrance?
"I" think if I',m to continue using what I have as it does smell JUST like coast soap, is to put it in the oil and maybe cut back just a smidge on my lye so it doesn't react quite as fast. Thoughts??
 

KimW

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A fragrance being stable, that is not accelerating or decelerating or discoloring (etc), depends on the formulation of the fragrance. While what a fragrance does really depends on the properties of the fragrance, there are some tweaks to a recipe one can make in anticipation of a fragrance that is known to "misbehave"

For example, I use exclusively EOs, but even some of those misbehave. Ginger and clove EOs accelerate trace due to the amount of the compound eugenol they contain. When I want to use one of these I use my slow moving recipe, which has more liquid oil than hard oils. My ratio depends on the size of the batch, but generally I use 60-70% liquid oil to 30-40% hard oils when I want to use those EOs. Caution here - not all liquid oils are created equal. When I say "liquid oils" I'm referring to "Basic" Olive (not pomace) or Canola. Hope that helps!

I see you just posted something... I haven't noticed any benefit to adding my EOs to my oil vs into my batter, but perhaps FOs are different. I will say this - take a good look at the properties/notes and reviews of that FO. Perhaps even send an email to the supplier. Find out if it's Double check if it's known to accelerate trace as well as the usage rate and what they recommend as the best method of use, including when it's best to add it when making soap.

ETA: Just in case...I've found that Rice Bran Oil and Castor oils tend to speed up trace. This is different than "accelerate" trace. I now use these liquid oils in my fast moving recipe when I just want to make family bars and move on.
 
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PARTSBILL

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Currently Im just using olive and coconut oils. found out that the FO is in a "carrier" oil. maybe I'll try my good recipe and add the FO with the oil. Keep everything the same and use the blender cautiously. Maybe a litte more hard whisk.
 

KimW

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Currently Im just using olive and coconut oils. found out that the FO is in a "carrier" oil. maybe I'll try my good recipe and add the FO with the oil. Keep everything the same and use the blender cautiously. Maybe a litte more hard whisk.
That sounds like a good plan! Keep us posted on your "coastal" adventures. 😃
 

DeeAnna

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Don't cut back on the lye if the only reason why you're doing that is because you think this will slow down the saponification. Reducing the lye won't solve this problem.

Analogy -- If you pour out a cup of gasoline into one container and pour a gallon of gasoline into another and apply a spark to both, which one catches fire faster? Sure, the cup of gas won't burn as long, but it will light off just as fast. ;)
 

KimW

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Thinking about this while working on my challenge soap. I should have added to my last reply: You really don't need to stick blend very much. I know videos look like they're stick blending a lot, but often just 3 or 4 quick bursts with a stick blender is enough to bring the soap batter to emulsion. Work the stick blender in one or two second bursts. Stir with a spoon or spatula between bursts to get a feel for the stage of the batter. Then, when you do add your fragrance, just stir or lightly whisk it in well and don't use the stick blender.
 

PARTSBILL

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Thinking about this while working on my challenge soap. I should have added to my last reply: You really don't need to stick blend very much. I know videos look like they're stick blending a lot, but often just 3 or 4 quick bursts with a stick blender is enough to bring the soap batter to emulsion. Work the stick blender in one or two second bursts. Stir with a spoon or spatula between bursts to get a feel for the stage of the batter. Then, when you do add your fragrance, just stir or lightly whisk it in well and don't use the stick blender.
Thing is, when I added mry FO the first time, I had enough to barely stir it before it stiffened right up. The second time with the double batch, it locked up solid what the FO was added. I used a spatula to get it out and halfway smooth it out.
 

DeeAnna

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Geeze, that FO sounds really naughty. I'd be looking for another FO if this one seizes as bad as you say it is. Or hot process the soap rather than cold process.
 

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Currently Im just using olive and coconut oils. found out that the FO is in a "carrier" oil. maybe I'll try my good recipe and add the FO with the oil. Keep everything the same and use the blender cautiously. Maybe a litte more hard whisk.
I thought you ordered this Coast dupe from Indigo Fragrances? Their page says their FOs are pure and uncut. I didn’t see anything in the description about a carrier oil. There are two reviews from Soapers who used this fragrance oil in soap. One said it behaved beautifully, the other one said it accelerated her batter and riced.
 

KimW

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Well, @Jerseygirl and @DeeAnna have said what I was getting around to. :)

Sometimes FOs (and EOs) are just naughty, as DeeAnna so aptly put it, and perhaps there's a better Coast-like FO out there that won't accelerate. I did find a couple more with a quick search, though one of them has more than one review saying it too accelerates trace.

I had an EO like that...can't remember what it was...when I was learning InThePot swirls. I ended up using 80% corn oil, just to see at what point that silly EO would behave. Of course, this didn't make for a very nice bar of soap.

Point is, sometimes even recipe tweaking won't fix a "bad" FO, BUT DeeAnna also makes a good point that sometimes bad FOs just need a different method. Like HotProcess instead of CP. HP isn't as bad as it sounds - perhaps it would be worth a go with this FO! (see what I did there...)
 
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PARTSBILL

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I think I'm going to put it in with regular oil. My temps at processing are around 85 degrees so I don't I'll lose much fragrance due to heat. I'm also planning on NOT using the blender. Just a quik whisk. Having an epidural injection in 30 minues due to inflamed lower back with 5 herniated discs, but when I'm able this weekend, I'm going to make another batch with my new techniques to try. Also I DO LOVE having so much soap to use!!!

I thought you ordered this Coast dupe from Indigo Fragrances? Their page says their FOs are pure and uncut. I didn’t see anything in the description about a carrier oil. There are two reviews from Soapers who used this fragrance oil in soap. One said it behaved beautifully, the other one said it accelerated her batter and riced.
I asked her and she said carrier oil. Not sure exactly what carrier oil is but it causes lock up on mine
 

Jersey Girl

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I asked her and she said carrier oil. Not sure exactly what carrier oil is but it causes lock up on mine
Carrier oils are oils (like vegetables oils) that are used to dilute essential oils so they can be used on the skin to avoid irritation. That’s odd because their site mentions nothing of this and in fact says their oils are pure and uncut. You definitely don’t want to be using these types of oils for soaping.
 

KimW

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Sooo - Out of curiosity I emailed Indigo last week about that fragrance. Here is their reply:
Hi Kim,
Yes, this is known accelerate trace.
Hope this helps !
Carolyn, Customer Service


I didn't ask about any carrier oil, but me thinks you just have a "naughty" FO. Keeping that in mind, with some experimenting as you're already doing, you may very well find a way to make it work for you. :)

I hope your back is better today!!
 

coogar

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Oh man! I haven't had essential oils do that to me, but all that work and that is super frustrating- especially with a double batch! Did it turn out of the molds okay or did it totally end up a waste of time and supplies?
 

AliOop

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Oh man! I haven't had essential oils do that to me, but all that work and that is super frustrating- especially with a double batch! Did it turn out of the molds okay or did it totally end up a waste of time and supplies?
Essential oils can accelerate trace, too. Some known EO accelerators are cinnamon, clove, basil, anise, and many of the florals.
 

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