Fragrance oil and trace speed

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hlecter

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Hi again!

I wanna make a soap using a fragrance oil tha accelerates trace too much... Its "Lilly of the Valley" and i am in love with this scent...

In the past i used some FO that accelerate trace a little bit (or nothing) but this one is bringing trace toooo fast...

So i m thinking this time to avoid completely "lye concentration" and working with a full amount of water 38% of oils (which is about 25% lye concentration)...
I will also use 2 teaspoons of honey with which i worked in past with good results and its also a trace fastener...
The total batch of the soap will be about 2 pounds and as far the things are gonna move fast i am thinking of puting away any hard oil such as palm and coconut oil and using 100% olive oil pomace...

These are my thoughts and i would like to know your sugggestions...

Thank you!!!
 

Steve85569

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Another thing you could try is doing whipped soap like the March Challenge. It allowed me to use Lilac in Bloom which A's bad enough in CP that I usually have a plop and swear. It's my wife's favorite FO though so I do what I can.
 

KristaY

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I highly recommend a gradient pour if you don't want to HP it. Mix your batter to emulsion then divide into the amount portions you want to color. Also divide the FO into the same number of portions. Color all. Begin with the color you want to pour first, whisk in FO and pour. Move on to the next color, whisk in FO and pour. The first layer should be firm enough to support the second layer without breaking through. Keep going in this fashion until you're done. I've had great success using this technique with bratty FO's.

I did the same thing last week but using only 2 layers. I was blending an accelerating FO with a well behaved FO. Propped my log mold on a 1" sq dowel so the first pour would be on a diagonal. I mixed in the accelerating FO and poured. Then I moved on to the well behaved FO and had plenty of time to color and mix in the scent. By the time I was ready to pour the 2nd, the first was firm. I removed the dowel so my mold would sit flat on the counter and poured in my 2nd color. Worked great!
 

hlecter

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Your posts are so helpful but i dont like hp at all and i dont want to use any colourant...

Do you think my first thoughts are useless on using a "bad" FO?

If this is from Natures Garden I do not recommend full water as it overheats severely and absolutely no honey. Sometimes hp is the best answer
No its not! I bought it from a local store here in Greece, but it is labeled as trace accelerator...

I highly recommend a gradient pour if you don't want to HP it. Mix your batter to emulsion then divide into the amount portions you want to color. Also divide the FO into the same number of portions. Color all. Begin with the color you want to pour first, whisk in FO and pour. Move on to the next color, whisk in FO and pour.
It sounds really interesting idea...

So if i divide the batter on two portions and also on each one i add the divided FO could it be the same thing as adding the whole FO to the whole butter?
 
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KristaY

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It sounds really interesting idea...

So if i divide the batter on two portions and also on each one i add the divided FO could it be the same thing as adding the whole FO to the whole butter?
Yes, it's the same but what I've found is mixing the small amounts are much easier to deal with. By mixing quickly into a smaller volume of batter it doesn't take as much time to get into the mold. So if you normally make 2 lb batches of soap, try dividing your batter into 3 or 4 equal parts. Mix the FO into one, pour. Repeat with the other 3. The only difference between yours and mine will be color. Since you like the scent so much it's worth a shot. On the other hand I have 2 FO's I love that I can't make work with CP no matter what tricks I try. Those are now for HP, liquid soap, lotion and candles only. Your FO might end up being one of those brats. :(

ETA: I meant to ask if you've tried mixing your FO with some of your warmed soap oils before adding because trace can be accelerated more by mixing cold FO into warm soap batter. Remove an equal weight of oil as the FO you're using. So if you've got a 2 lb batch and use 2 oz FO, remove 2 oz oils. Warm the oil to 90-100 F (close to your soaping temp) and mix the FO into it. Now you're adding diluted and warmed FO to your soap which can be very helpful when it comes to acceleration.
 
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newbie

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Soap very cool and don't stick blend at all. Use only a whisk to blend it all together and it should give you time to work with it a little. You don't want to use any colorant so you can do the whole batch at once, and if you use only a whisk, you should be able to catch it while still pourable so you can get a smooth pour into the mold. It will probably get very hot because the accelerating FO's tend to do that, so if you choose to add honey, that will just make it that much hotter in gel. Be watchful because it could get so hot it separates or cracks or volcanos. YOu could make it and pop it immediately into the fridge or freezer but you may get partial gel- not so bad because you can fix that once it's saponified but putting it back into a warm oven (190 degrees) for 30-60 minutes.

I personally don't like 100% OO soap. Since you want to keep it without colorants, I think you can manage with mixed oils if you wish. Coconut oil, lard, tallow should all be fine to use. You could even use a bit of castor oil if you avoid the stick blender and hand stir.

If you want a plain bar of soap but with this FO, I think you will be successful.
 
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hlecter

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ETA: I meant to ask if you've tried mixing your FO with some of your warmed soap oils before adding because trace can be accelerated more by mixing cold FO into warm soap batter.
On the past i added a cool FO (cranberry) to the warmed soap batter and it reach trace quickly. The problem wasnt the FO, it only accelerated trace a little, but i was newbie then and i used to stir the batter with the stick blender enough :mrgreen:

Finally the batter seized and was thrown in a trash can with me thinking "Oh what happened and the trace came so fast?" :p:lol:

Soap very cool and don't stick blend at all. Use only a whisk to blend it all together and it should give you time to work with it a little. You don't want to use any colorant so you can do the whole batch at once, and if you use only a whisk, you should be able to catch it while still pourable so you can get a smooth pour into the mold. It will probably get very hot because the accelerating FO's tend to do that, so if you choose to add honey, that will just make it that much hotter in gel. Be watchful because it could get so hot it separates or cracks or volcanos. YOu could make it and pop it immediately into the fridge or freezer but you may get partial gel- not so bad because you can fix that once it's saponified but putting it back into a warm oven (190 degrees) for 30-60 minutes.

I personally don't like 100% OO soap. Since you want to keep it without colorants, I think you can manage with mixed oils if you wish. Coconut oil, lard, tallow should all be fine to use. You could even use a bit of castor oil if you avoid the stick blender and hand stir.

If you want a plain bar of soap but with this FO, I think you will be successful.
i think you are right, i have to soap at room temp and working only with a whisk...
But f i use coconut oil or palm on this recipe i have to keep them liquid on this temp...Also they can help trace too... Thats why i ask to avoid them on a recipe with a FO accelerator...

Castor oil gives some great bubbles but it has sticky feeling even on 4% (personal preference)
 
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Dahila

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I use lilac in bloom in cp soap and I am able to do two colors, but one must be quick and soap cool, as cool as possible, full water helps too. No other scent sticks so well to soap as lilac in Bloom, I think Candora has the same one as WSP
 

cmzaha

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Your posts are so helpful but i dont like hp at all and i dont want to use any colourant...

Do you think my first thoughts are useless on using a "bad" FO?



No its not! I bought it from a local store here in Greece, but it is labeled as trace accelerator...


It sounds really interesting idea...

So if i divide the batter on two portions and also on each one i add the divided FO could it be the same thing as adding the whole FO to the whole butter?
Duh, I should have noticed you are from Greece :) If it does not heat up the accelerating fo's work great for gradient or layer pours. Just divide your batter at emulsion or very thin trace, color, add in a portion of the fo and pour. Prepare your next color adding in fo, pour. Do as many colors as you want. It is a great way to get straight line pours. You can pretty much eyeball how much fragrance to pour into each color. I have an fo mix I like but it accelerates like crazy, so I pour in 3 layers. Works great. Oops I really need to learn to read, since I did not notice you do not want to use colorants. One other thing you could do is divide in 2 or 3 parts before adding in fo adding different amounts of water in each part before adding in the fo and pouring layers. Let the soap gel and you may get 2-3 color layers. This would be a high low water pour
 
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newbie

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My recipe is OO, tallow, coconut oil and castor. If i melt it all together and then let to cool to room temp, it will be opaque but still fluid. I add my cooled lye water to it and work with it like that and as long as you don't get fooled by a false trace, you're fine. Or, you can put the mix in the microwave and heat it in small bursts until the oils are clear. Because they are mixed together, it won't be very hot to make it clear and you can then add cooled lye water to it and whisk away. Makes it possible to use oil blends as well as all OO for an FO like this.

Let us know how it goes!
 

hlecter

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So summarily ....

I will follow your instructions on using gradient pour (3 portions) and soap on room temp. I am gonna use 80% oo, 10% coconut and 10 % palm and about 1-2 teaspoon honey.

I will avoid stick blender of course and i ll use 27% lye concentration...
 
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Susie

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DO NOT use honey with an accelerating FO. You will get volcanoing soap. Many other people have said the same thing.
 

hlecter

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Finally i made it!!!

I soap at about 77 deg Fahrenheit (25 celsious), lye concentration at 27% and i took the risk using 1-2 teaspoon of honey and some calendula flowers and 0.5 oz. fragrance... After putting the FO there was time to work but i had to be quick and i mold at thick trace. Not seize or something bad happened...

3 hours after molding


 
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dixiedragon

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Possibly cover the top of the soap with something like Saran Wrap. Then you can use your hands (wearing gloves) to smush the soap and force it deeper into the corners of the mold. Let the soap cool with the Saran wrap on it, then peel it off. Then you can trim off the bumpy top, if desired.
 

hlecter

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i ve tried Saran wrap on the past.

I know that the top now may come out not very good but i dont like the bumpy top neither! So i decide to leave soaps as it on the molds.
 

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It looks like you got a great pour! I like the calendula as well. Well done!!
 

ngian

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Hello hlecter,

Keep in mind that olive oil pomace traces a little faster in contrast with virgin olive oil, so next time you can use EVOO for slowing trace even more while everything else is the same.
 

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