For newbies, on dealing w/a tricky/speedy FO

SoapMakingForum

Help Support SoapMakingForum:

not_ally

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
2,939
Reaction score
1,690
Location
Los Angeles
This is from a post that I bookmarked when I was just starting, I think it is v. useful if you are just beginning and wondering how to deal w/the nutty speeders. Some of this may be self-evident to experienced soapers, of which I am not one, but I found myself nodding and realizing that I had forgotten/was not consistent with some of these things from the first time I read them.

From a v. good/experienced soaper who may be *the* FO maven, Lilli, she is the owner/mod on SSRB:

"use a formula with a lower palmitic/stearic fatty acid profile. A new formula if need be. Increase the oleic FA.

use a 30% solution
oils and solution warm ~ each at 80-90
add liquid lecithin to the oils before the lye water. SB well to incorporate
add the FO to the oils before the lye water. SB well to incorporate.
add the colouring now, before adding the lye water. no swirls, just go for a mono colour. SB if need be.

If you're using a Braun SB the speed must be on low. Always low.
add the lye water solution - all at once, whammo.

SB in one hand and a silicone spatula in the other. The spatula will be in motion from now until pour, making sure the solution doesn't hang around the bottom.

don't SB more than 5 seconds here and there. SB at the bottom of the bucket, turn off, use the SB as a spoon and stir, SB on again for 5 seconds.

When you have the faintest hint of a thorough emulsion POUR. The time line might be as fast as 25-30 seconds.

A difficult FO will bow down and begrudgingly work."
 
Last edited:

snappyllama

Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
3,910
Reaction score
3,040
Location
Near Charlotte NC
Nice post. I was wondering about liquid lecithin. Has anyone used this? I just looked it up and saw a few posts saying it's an emulsifier used to slow trace. Does it have any impact on the final soap?
 

not_ally

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
2,939
Reaction score
1,690
Location
Los Angeles
I have, and it did seem to work w/r/t slowing trace in a crazy speeder. It did kind of make the soap gummier at the beginning. It cured out, though.

ETA: This remind me to try lecithin w/Euphoria, which is a really nice rose based floral from WSP, but by far the craziest speeder I have ever encountered. If lecithin works w/that one, it will work w/anything :)
 
Last edited:

lenarenee

Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
3,703
Reaction score
3,314
Thank you for this; I had forgotten about adding the fo to the oils before lye and I have 3 florals - lilac, honeysuckle and rose that are begging to be soaped.

Remind me, why does adding the fo before lye make a difference?
 

not_ally

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
2,939
Reaction score
1,690
Location
Los Angeles
I don't know what the theory is behind it, Lena. I always do it automatically just b/c a lot of the soapers I respect seem to do it as a way of troubleshooting acceleration. Also, and this has absolutely no basis in fact/research, I sort of hope that it will help the scent stick/marry with the oils better, who knows about that one though. No doubt just wishful thinking. Hopefully someone with more, um, actual information will chip in.
 
Last edited:

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
13,469
Reaction score
19,369
Location
USA
I think the reason for adding FO to the oils before adding lye is that you're reducing the concentration of the FO. That means the lye has to hunt around for FO molecules to be naughty with. :)

If you mix the FO into the soap batter (fat and lye mixed together), you're putting a big pile of FO into one concentrated spot for the lye to react with. This is about the same as pouring gasoline on an otherwise well behaved fire --the FO acts as an accelerant to rapidly increase the rate of saponification.
 

newbie

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
6,117
Reaction score
5,377
You can get even better behavior if you SB everything together well before adding your lye water and then ditching the SB altogether and just stirring. You'll have more time to work with it although it may still be speedy enough. You may have time for colors and an ITP or other swirls with hand-stirring only, once you get to know your recipe and the FO.
 

Lynusann

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
181
Reaction score
108
That means the lye has to hunt around for FO molecules to be naughty with.
DeeAnna this is the best thing I've read in ages :lol: thank you for making me literally laugh so hard I woke DH (laying in bed reading the forum instead of sleeping)...because of this forum, whenever I think of fragrances I now think of the term FoHo.. So you can imagine how well your comment went over in my head...
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
13,469
Reaction score
19,369
Location
USA
Oh, my. I didn't realize I was explaining why FoHo's are FoHo's! :mrgreen: But now that I get the joke ... pretty funny!!!
 

kumudini

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
824
Reaction score
404
Thanks B, for this post :). I have some lecithin lying around in my kitchen (bought in my early vegan days thinking I will need to make vegan butter and stuff like that), I wonder if I could make a solution or blend in some powder in the oils. Also I need to find out how much to add, off to google!
 

not_ally

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
2,939
Reaction score
1,690
Location
Los Angeles
Shoot, K, I only have the liquid lecithin, so all my notes are on that. If it helps, w/the liquid - kind of like a thick, molasses looking substance - the amt recommended by the posts I found were 1 tspn ppo added to the cooled off lye water. I remembered being worried that it might D because it was so dark/thick/goeey, but it did not.
 
Last edited:

kumudini

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
824
Reaction score
404
Oh, no problem, I gathered some info on the net and what I learnt was that the powder needs to be hydrated and that liquid lecithin is about 60% oil. So I hydrated the stuff and added some olive oil and stirred up. This is what I got, there are very few small lumps. I'm going to use this and see how it goes.

image.jpg
 

kumudini

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
824
Reaction score
404
Soooo, I did it! I think the lecithin concoction worked. I made my swap soap today, with a new FO blend for which I didn't have any info. I just liked them together. I added the FOs and the lecithin stuff to about 80 degree oils along with half my water with all the usual additives. Stick blended well. Added my lye water which was at a little over 100. Short SB bursts and hand mixing. Had time to quickly mix up 3 colors and an ITP swirl.
No ricing or soap on a stick. Thank you not_ally for your patience with my multiple questions.
The batter smells lovely. Hope the scent stays the same or gets better. Also hoping my swirl comes out good:).
I will update the scent review chart after the swap is done and everyone gets their goodies.
 
Top