Flaky CP soap?

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jn1093

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Will somewhat flaky soap become crumbly when it cures completely? I used palm kernel flakes for the first time (14% of my recipe?) and I did not gel it. I also had major ash. I used canola, palm, castor, coconut oils and 15 the palm kernel flakes. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 

cmzaha

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You really need to post your full recipe. Did you do a heavy water discount or lye discount? Fifteen percent PKO should not produce a crumbly soap with your other oils. You mentioned heavy ash, is it the ash rolling off? That can happen. I have had it happen with very heavy ash, it you rub your finger across it it will roll or flake off
 

snappyllama

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Howdy and welcome...

As Carolyn mentioned, we would need your full recipe, pictures and technique details to help diagnose the issue.

It could be lye heavy - does it zap?

Did you use an FO? I've had one that misbehaved (seizing, separating, etc) that I eventually got in the mold only to have it stay a weird crumbly texture. I ended up chunking that batch.
 

jn1093

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Thank you for replying. I did not discount water or lye and the ash is not quite rolling off but I can somewhat rub it off with my finger. I really should have gelled it. This is the recipe I used... (oz)

Coconut oil-18.24
Canola - 18.24
Palm oil -10.24
Palm kernel flakes - 8
Castor -2.32
Lye 8.42
Water-18.82
Sodium lactate -9 tsp
Activated charcoal in canola oil- 8 TBSP
Lavender FO - 3.5 oz
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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Holy bubbly cleaners, batman!

Both palm kernel and the co will be cleansing, in that it really removes oil from the skin, making it feel dry. You are using a lot of co as it is (too much for many people) and then adding in a lot of the pko. I've not run the numbers to see what sort of lye discount you have, but if you have 0 as you say above, this soap is not likely to be a hit in the bathroom. As a working soap for cleaning hard-core dirt, maybe, or as a household soap - but not so much for bath time.

Most people use around 15-20% cleaning oils, some up to 30% but most people less than that.
 

DeeAnna

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The recipe looks okay. The canola oil in the activated carbon is going to raise your superfat if you didn't include that amount in the recipe calculations.

It's a big batch to make using a first-time recipe, however. Might want to cut your batch size down a little bit when experimenting so you don't have so much soap if it doesn't turn out well.

I don't know exactly what you're seeing when you say the soap is flaky.

You could be right that it comes from the soap not going through gel. Not-gelled soap can be rather soft and powdery for me at first. It eventually firms up and is fine. If you think that is the problem, one solution is to just wait and see and I think that might work fine. An alternative that I've been experimenting with is to put the soap back into its mold (cut into bars or not) and warming it in the oven at 140 to 170 deg F for an hour or two.

But the problem might be something else entirely. Can you share a picture?
 

topofmurrayhill

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Thank you for replying. I did not discount water or lye and the ash is not quite rolling off but I can somewhat rub it off with my finger. I really should have gelled it. This is the recipe I used... (oz)

Coconut oil-18.24
Canola - 18.24
Palm oil -10.24
Palm kernel flakes - 8
Castor -2.32
Lye 8.42
Water-18.82
Sodium lactate -9 tsp
Activated charcoal in canola oil- 8 TBSP
Lavender FO - 3.5 oz
That is a crapload (a scientific unit of measure, look it up) of activated charcoal. I would venture the combination of that and the sodium lactate made your soap wonky.
 

Muskette

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I agree with topofmurrayhill. I normally use 1 or 2 tsp ppo of Activated Charcoal, so for this size batch roughly 1-2 TBS. 8 TBS of powder is a LOT.
 

jn1093

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Thank you all for your input. I am embarrassed to admit that the recipe I shared is incorrect. This is what happens when I get distracted! My apologies. This is the correct one...
Coconut oil - 34.56 oz
Palm oil - 24
PKO - 10.56
Canola - 34.56
Castor - 3.85
5% Lye - 15.4
Water - 35.5
Sodium lactate - 9 tsp
Activated charcoal- 8TBSP
Lavender FO - 6 oz

I will just wait it out and see how it firms up.

20160219_163206_HDR.jpg


20160219_164929_HDR.jpg
 

topofmurrayhill

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Thank you all for your input. I am embarrassed to admit that the recipe I shared is incorrect. This is what happens when I get distracted! My apologies. This is the correct one...
Coconut oil - 34.56 oz
Palm oil - 24
PKO - 10.56
Canola - 34.56
Castor - 3.85
5% Lye - 15.4
Water - 35.5
Sodium lactate - 9 tsp
Activated charcoal- 8TBSP
Lavender FO - 6 oz

I will just wait it out and see how it firms up.
Nice design from what I can see of it. :)

So with the correct recipe, obviously the AC is fine.

One problem I notice is the combination of coconut oil and pko. Those oils are roughly equivalent, so it's almost the same as adding 42% coconut oil. I'm not one of those people who always recommend smaller amount, but 30% really is pretty much the limit. But that's only an issue in that the soap will be drying.

I am suspicious of the sodium lactate. This recipe doesn't look as though it needs any, as it is really more for hardening soft recipes. Sometimes it can backfire on you.

It's hard to think of anything else if you measured correctly. Temperature maybe. Did you soap or pour it pretty cool? Are you sure you got a real trace?
 

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