first time notes and ?'s

[Biglou13]

i made my first batch today

50% tallow (self rendered)
40% stearic acid
10% coconut oil

60% NaOH
40% KOH
6% super fat after
clay, EO
38% water

as soon as i added lye,before i could even SB it went white, and started to solidify a soon i was able to mix it went through all the stages ....trace, separation, apple sauce, vaseline.... so fast i didn't get see all the stages.?!?!
trying to figure out why it went so fast?!
forgot to add clay to oils, added as soon as i realized?!
mixed the best i could SB, then folding with rubber spatula
did zap test and passed, less than 5 minutes
it firmed up so fast, was difficult to mold, 2 tins, silicone muffin pan, it felt very dry, dry oatmeal like.... was barely able to get last bit into muffin pan
i think my lye water mix was too hot. it was in a deep container and could not see temp on digital stick ?
my guesstimate, lye/water was about 180˚F (same temperature feel when i make black tea)
my oils were @ 180˚F (digi thermometer and induction top@ 180)
not all is lost....i tested soap with clean up scraps, i know its best to cure, but later looked and felt fine
how do i slow down the process?
can i use same recipe and make CP?
Huge thanks to everyone!!!! it was fun and i'm ready to try again....

 

[steffamarie]

The stearic made it move so quickly, I'd bet. You'd have a very difficult time using stearic acid in CP but I suppose it is doable. You'd just have to soap very warm and it would move very rapidly on you. Tallow also doesn't help the speed problem.

 

[Biglou13]

The stearic made it move so quickly, I'd bet. You'd have a very difficult time using stearic acid in CP but I suppose it is doable. You'd just have to soap very warm and it would move very rapidly on you. Tallow also doesn't help the speed problem.

thanks for getting back to me so fast.

there has to be away to make this more workable.....
how do the commercial and artisan soap maker do it?

thinking out loud....
start with lye at cool temperature?
start with cooler fats?
will the stearic acid harden after mixed with other fats, and cooled down (below 152)?
decrease HP temperature?
change recipe to increase working time?
less NaOH?

 

[user 29721]

Not the best recipe for a first try. Dual lye and stearic acid - save that for later when you have couple successful batches with cold and hot process soaps. First off temp was definitely high. Cold process is done between 100 F - 110 F, both oils and lye water. Higher temperature accelerates saponification. My next question is where did you find this recipe and whether it came with any instructions? It's crucial for the first time to find an easy to follow recipe AND good description and details of steps involved. There are a bunch of recipes here on the form, search for a "beginner recipe".

 

[steffamarie]

I would change the recipe. Tallow is fine around 30%, but I wouldn't include stearic acid unless you're ok with it moving so fast. Coconut can come up to around 20% and the other 50% can be pretty much any other oils, I'd suggest at least 30% or so of high oleic (HO) oil. Olive oil, HO sunflower or safflower, whatever is available in your area. Rice bran oil is cheap and also works.

You can keep the recipe simple and pretty cheap that way and still be able to work with it. Lard could be added or subbed for the tallow, up to a pretty high percentage, and that will slow things down considerably. I'm sure there will be others along to add their suggestions for recipes!

To address your thoughts...
1. You can soap CP at room temperature and that will help keep things fluid for longer
2. See above
3. Stearic needs a pretty high temp to stay melted and at high amounts probably would separate out under 150F or so. Of course the other oils would still be melted and pretty hot. SA works fine in HP but not as well in CP.
4. HP needs to be hot to work, so if you're looking to do a temperature reduction, look into CP
5. See first/second paragraph suggestions
6. Less NaOH will not make anything move slower. It will only increase your superfat, which is best around 3-5% except in a select few scenarios. Higher SF can make your soap prone to rancidity and can make it stay squishy even after an extended cure.

 

[user 29721]

Reading your post again - it apprears you did hot process. What happens in the slow cooker shouldn't concern you much. Break down the batter the best you can (you don't need to SB hot process unless you are doing CPHP which is not beginner route). Just break down the batter the best you can, I sometimes use potato masher for that purpose. Stir every 15-20 minutes and yes, the resulting blob of soap batter is difficult to mold. Now since you have the experience of HP, try cold process and see which one you like the most.

 

[earlene]

Yes, it was absolutely the stearic acid. I take it this is a shaving soap?

You could use less stearic acid in your recipe perhaps.

As far as soaping cooler, as long as it is at least as warm/hot as required to keep the stearic fluid, that's about as cool as you can go.

Be careful not to add cool ingredients to hot HP soap, especially with the stearic, as it will create problems with mixing & you would still have to wait for everything to heat up again, while in the meantime saponification continues to occur in the pot.

What kind of mixing are you doing? Stick blender? If yes, try using short pulses while alternating with simple stirring in between. The SB will facilitate faster trace, so using it less should help some. But this is a very fast moving recipe as is.

Using less NaOH will increase your SF, but probably not slow your trace if you keep the stearic at 40%.

I doubt you would be able to make this recipe as CP, due to the high stearic. But I could be wrong.

I would agree with the recommendation that you start with something simpler. If you post a recipe BEFORE you make it, you can get feedback and suggestions about how to proceed which should hopefully prepare you beforehand for any possible complications.

 

[Biglou13]

Thanks for the info

This thread was moved from beginners section to here by mods. I think posted recipe ideas there.

Yes it is a shave soap.

I wanted to mimic a vintage tallow bases shave soap. Hence the fats, also want to keep ingredients short list and simple lie the vintage soap.

I think I am going to try a smaller batch @ lower temp

How would increasing water change soap and process?
Is the clay used in soap calcined?

 

[amd]

When I used to make shave soap, I would combine everything but the stearic acid and bring it to trace. Once it got to trace I would then add the fully melted stearic acid. It does move fast with the stearic, so this was what I found to make sure that the lye gets incorporated properly. My shave soap will usually cook (be zap-free) in 20 minutes, without any of the normal stages of an HP soap.