First Soap! Many things realized[emoji54]

[navigator9]

Congratulations on your first soap! As for the streaks, here's what has worked for me. Although the stick blender is great at mixing the batter for soap, I don't think that it mixes as thoroughly and evenly as we may think. Since I always have my spatula ready to scrape the soap batter out of the pot and into the mold, I take one extra step. Before pouring, I take the spatula and stir the pot first, making sure to scrape the sides and bottom and stir well, for just a few seconds. I think the SB does a good job in the middle, but not so much around the edges. I used to get streaks fairly often, but in all the years that I've been doing this...no streaks. Hope it works for you too!

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

The river water is a poor analogy. Better is hot water - you wouldn't put an elbow in to a pot of boiling water to test if it is hot or not, but that doesn't mean that testing baby's bath water with an elbow is unsafe. Putting a limb in to water CAN result in it being stripped to the bone if the water is hot enough. Putting 50% lye solution on your tongue would not be a good idea. But that's not what zap testing actually is.

As I said, you might consider zap testing unsafe, which is up to you. But please do not state as a fact that it IS unsafe, because it isn't.

 

[jcandleattic]

but the zap test sounds scary and incredibly stupid.

It may sound scary, but if done properly, (The way Kittish describes) it is no more 'scary' or 'dangerous' than putting a jalapeno pepper on your tongue. The same amount of 'bodily harm' can be done.
And to say it's incredibly stupid - well that's a matter of opinion, and as others have pointed out a multitude of times, I would rather be stupid for doing a zap test, than stupid for selling, giving, using a lye heavy soap because I relied on pH strips that would not tell me diddly squat about excess lye. Just a high or low pH, which we all know that handmade soap always ranges between 9-11 or higher on the pH scale, and that is perfectly normal.

Saying that you don't want to zap test is one thing, stating that it is dangerous and "putting your body on the line", especially when people who don't know better yet might read it, is something else.

...

I don't want newbies getting in to the "pH good, zap test bad" mindset before they've even looked at how to do it properly.

^^^ What he said...

 

[Kamahido]

IMVHO, I know A LOT of people do this, but the zap test sounds scary and incredibly stupid. Super Sorry there has to be a better way to test that doesn't put your body on the line.

Nope. It's the only accurate method available to normal people. Only other option is to send it to a lab for analysis (cost prohibitive).

Save​

 

[MissLunaB]

Congratulations on your first soap! As for the streaks, here's what has worked for me. Although the stick blender is great at mixing the batter for soap, I don't think that it mixes as thoroughly and evenly as we may think. Since I always have my spatula ready to scrape the soap batter out of the pot and into the mold, I take one extra step. Before pouring, I take the spatula and stir the pot first, making sure to scrape the sides and bottom and stir well, for just a few seconds. I think the SB does a good job in the middle, but not so much around the edges. I used to get streaks fairly often, but in all the years that I've been doing this...no streaks. Hope it works for you too!

I was thinking about this last night! I did stir it with my spoon a couple of times to get the feel of what trace feels like. My stick blender acted way different in the soap batter than it did in the water tests (little sucker is powerful), I was actually worried that I would over blend and come to thick trace and not be able to pour my soap. Next batch I'll blend a little more. But I still like the stripes XD

The river water is a poor analogy. Better is hot water - you wouldn't put an elbow in to a pot of boiling water to test if it is hot or not, but that doesn't mean that testing baby's bath water with an elbow is unsafe. Putting a limb in to water CAN result in it being stripped to the bone if the water is hot enough. Putting 50% lye solution on your tongue would not be a good idea. But that's not what zap testing actually is.



As I said, you might consider zap testing unsafe, which is up to you. But please do not state as a fact that it IS unsafe, because it isn't.

Hold the phone you might want to re read the first 5 words of the post that unsettled you so much as well as a very important key word I wrote in that same post. For one, I did not make an absolute, I stated my opinion and that's all it is an opinion not a fact. As I said in my intro I am here to learn and I come with an open mind. The zap test sounds scary and incredibly stupid, to someone that has had lab safety and practices drilled into then for the past 12 or so years. But please don't undermine someone because of there fears/background/experience. Yes I'm new but that is why I'm here, to learn, and maybe this newbie can bring a new idea/solution to an old problem/method



Now, since its such a waste of money can someone please explain to me why pH strips don't work to test soap? And if it doesn't work why was it recommended in the first place.
And can we get back to my soap XD

 

[jcandleattic]

Now, since its such a waste of money can someone please explain to me why pH strips don't work to test soap? And if it doesn't work why was it recommended in the first place.

Because all they do is test the pH of your soap. That will not in any way shape or form let you know if there is free lye still active in your soaps.
As for why they are recommended - I have no idea. I personally would never recommend using them to determine if a soap is lye heavy because it will not indicate that.
As I said in my previous post is, all it will tell you is if your soap has a high or low pH to what the strip considers "normal" (which I believe neutral is a pH of 7?), and by using colors, not actual numbers (if I remember correctly) and handmade soap is on average, but not always the case around a pH level of 8.5 (very low for handmade soap, but have seen a pH level 9 to be lye heavy) to 11 (high ish, but have seen a lot at this level that is not lye heavy at all)

 

[MissLunaB]

But that makes me wonder what was in lye that made someone somewhere say "hey! If it says this on the pH scale then it has no lye in it" and if that's the case then that's the first step to finding a new way to doing things. The zap test is compared to a zap like a 9v battery correct? It has to be something about the reaction that happens when saliva comes in contact with the terminals that produces that same sensation when you test soap... Sorry gears are turning and I want to know XD

 

[jcandleattic]

But that makes me wonder what was in lye that made someone somewhere say "hey! If it says this on the pH scale then it has no lye in it" and if that's the case then that's the first step to finding a new way to doing things. The zap test is compared to a zap like a 9v battery correct? It has to be something about the reaction that happens when saliva comes in contact with the terminals that produces that same sensation when you test soap... Sorry gears are turning and I want to know XD

I've heard others refer to it feeling like that, but I've never had a zap quite as strong as a 9V battery. and that was testing soap I new was not even remotely close to being saponified yet (aka, still had active lye in the soap, barely past the batter stage)

I think the main reason nobody has tried researching a new way, is because once people get more comfortable with their craft, and have experience with what they are doing, they pretty much know which soaps they should/need to test and which ones are "normal" and that happens in a relatively short learning curve/time period.

Also, the zap test is free - requires nothing more than a gloved wet finger and a tongue, where as even the pH strips are a cost to the business, AND anything else - creating something new - would/could be very cost and time prohibitive.
You know the saying, time is money... Well, I'd rather spend my time on a literal 30 second free zap test, than all the other gimmicks/products that are proven not to work.

 

[MissLunaB]

I totally understand what you are saying, and after a bit of reading I came across this article which pretty much sums it up and might ruffle a few feathers as well http://www.modernsoapmaking.com/how-to-ph-test-handmade-soap/
But in the long run, no one can figure out another way to test home made soaps and no one is going to invest to compact the industry standards into a home kit :/ I might go into the lab library this weekend and see what I can pull up or get out of my boss/mom's supervisor

 

[jcandleattic]

Why would it ruffle feathers?
Kenna is basically saying the exact same thing we are about pH strips.

The part about the tongue test is her assumption that people are actually sticking their tongue to their soaps (which I do not know anyone personally who actually does that!) and how that affects GMP - which, btw the way you need to test the pH, you wouldn't be able to sell as GMP either, so...

 

[MissLunaB]

I don't think she is assuming that people actually are licking the soaps (just the act of sticking your finger in your mouth in area/place/space/containment chamber that is suppose to be clean can be considered unhygienic) but either way you are up a creek without a paddle. Oh, I was just saying that she was saying that zap testing isn't a way to go either, that's where I was getting the feather ruffling from. -_-; so you could not zap and still have bad soap.

 

[jcandleattic]

I don't think she is assuming that people actually are licking the soaps (just the act of sticking your finger in your mouth in area/place/space/containment chamber that is suppose to be clean can be considered unhygienic) but either way you are up a creek without a paddle. Oh, I was just saying that she was saying that zap testing isn't a way to go either, that's where I was getting the feather ruffling from. -_-; so you could not zap and still have bad soap.

But people are not sticking their finger on their tongue and then touching it to the soap, so ??
And I would really hope after they did stick their soapy finger to their tongue that they are both washing their hands AND rinsing out their mouth. And then quarantining that soap, or doing the zap test somewhere other than around the rest of the batch of soap.

so you could not zap and still have bad soap.

And you could also pH test your soap, have it read "normal" and still have lye heavy soap. It goes both ways.


I guess we could go round all day long, but nobody, not even Kenna's article is going to change my mind and make me believe that something people have been doing for a multitude of years and years when done properly is unsafe/dangerous. I have never heard of anyone who has done it properly have issues other than a slight zap, or a soap taste on their tongue. Ever.

And with that, I've pretty much said everything I can about this subject.

 

[SudsanSoaps]

Not that I'm for licking soap bars, it does seem like a bad manufacturing practice, but really whys it's such a big deal? Say your eat some chocolate and lick your fingers then wash your hands you're gonna get saliva on the soap, even if you do rinse your hands. If a bar of soap is actually gonna harbor bacteria that easily seems like we shouldn't use it.

 

[MissLunaB]

*throws hands up in confusion* ok this is obviously a hot button issue an I've stepped on a couple of toes here. I'm not here for to cause strife, I'm guessing my tone and vernacular is too...too..idk? A little help on the matter would be greatly appreciated. I do not want to be the eye roll of the forum. But can everyone please chill and maybe be a bit open minded?

But people are not sticking their finger on their tongue and then touching it to the soap, so ??

And I would really hope after they did stick their soapy finger to their tongue that they are both washing their hands AND rinsing out their mouth. And then quarantining that soap, or doing the zap test somewhere other than around the rest of the batch of soap.

I was talking in regards in how you properly do the test not sticking your finger in your mouth and then testing the soap DX

And you could also pH test your soap, have it read "normal" and still have lye heavy soap. It goes both ways.





I guess we could go round all day long, but nobody, not even Kenna's article is going to change my mind and make me believe that something people have been doing for a multitude of years and years when done properly is unsafe/dangerous. I have never heard of anyone who has done it properly have issues other than a slight zap, or a soap taste on their tongue. Ever.



And with that, I've pretty much said everything I can about this subject.

I wasn't saying one way was better than the other I was saying even if you test zap test it you still can have a bad soap along side pH strips, I wasn't trying to make you, or anyone for that matter, change your ways, I was just trying have a constructive thoughtful conversation, that's all. *smh*

 

[SunWolf]

[snip] I was saying even if you test zap test it you still can have a bad soap along side pH strips, [snip]

But zap testing has nothing to do with PH testing...they are two totally different things. If you don't get a Zap, then your soap is SAFE from excess lye. You are always going to have high PH...it's just the nature of hand made soap.

What are you meaning by still having "bad" soap??

 

[neonstudy]

I personally don't zap test. When a batch of soap goes bad, you can tell by the way it looks. I usually just wait until 4 weeks cure, then test a small piece on my body.

 

[MissLunaB]

But zap testing has nothing to do with PH testing...they are two totally different things. If you don't get a Zap, then your soap is SAFE from excess lye. You are always going to have high PH...it's just the nature of hand made soap.

What are you meaning by still having "bad" soap??

Sorry, by "bad soap" I mean "excessive lye". pH testing can be used instead of zap testing to test for excessive lye.

 

[SunRiseArts]

jcandleattic I have seen so many youtube videos of people licking their soap. Below is one of the most watch soap videos, go to minute 4.22

I have seen terrible practices of people making not only soap but bath product on the tube. Sometimes I scream at my screen.

Normally I do not say anything, but the other day in on of those Katie videos I said gloves please, you are pregnant! (She always takes her gloves off to put embeds and stuff), and someone replied and told me gloves are not necessary when making soap, and if you get batter, just put vinegar. You can imagine I did reply to that one. I furthermore told her that was not only terrible advice, which is why I replied so someone else reading would not think is appropriate, but that I sure hoped at least she wore googles ...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_c4HjVGk3I[/ame]

 

[jcandleattic]

jcandleattic I have seen so many youtube videos of people licking their soap. Below is one of the most watch soap videos, go to minute 4.22

I only watch like 5 soapers on youtube - very experienced, respected soapers in the field, and they have never done that (on camera -doubt they would do it off camera either) All all the soapers in my local soap group (about 20 of us) don't lick our soap either.

There are so many crappy youtube videos showing very dangerous processes, it's amazing they don't get reported and taken down...

 

[jcandleattic]

*throws hands up in confusion* ok this is obviously a hot button issue an I've stepped on a couple of toes here. I'm not here for to cause strife, I'm guessing my tone and vernacular is too...too..idk? A little help on the matter would be greatly appreciated. I do not want to be the eye roll of the forum. But can everyone please chill and maybe be a bit open minded?


I was talking in regards in how you properly do the test not sticking your finger in your mouth and then testing the soap DX




I wasn't saying one way was better than the other I was saying even if you test zap test it you still can have a bad soap along side pH strips, I wasn't trying to make you, or anyone for that matter, change your ways, I was just trying have a constructive thoughtful conversation, that's all. *smh*

No toes stepped on here, and no hot buttons pushed for me. I thought we were having a very level-headed back and forth conversation.
I was explaining my side and my reasoning. Sorry you felt that was me being aggressive or whatever.
I never once thought you were saying one way was better than the other, but as has been explained, repeatedly, and even from the article you yourself posted, pH strips will in no way tell you if you have "bad soap" with excess lye (lye-heavy, unsafe soap). They will tell you if your pH levels are high or low. Which is what they are designed to do.