Fast tracing with high tallow recipe....

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CTAnton

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Hi all...just wondering if what I'm experiencing is par for the course. The recipe is as follows:
Deer Tallow 49%
Olive Oil 30%
Palm Kernel Flakes 15%
Castor 6%
I'm soaping at 130F and it seems a real fast mover...added the Fo(RE's Bayberry Black Forest)to the oils before the lye and aloe juice...the kitchen is cool here in CT if that makes a dramatic difference.
Many thanks in advance!!!
 

topofmurrayhill

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Hi all...just wondering if what I'm experiencing is par for the course. The recipe is as follows:
Deer Tallow 49%
Olive Oil 30%
Palm Kernel Flakes 15%
Castor 6%
I'm soaping at 130F and it seems a real fast mover...added the Fo(RE's Bayberry Black Forest)to the oils before the lye and aloe juice...the kitchen is cool here in CT if that makes a dramatic difference.
Many thanks in advance!!!
I make recipes in that ballpark and they've moved pretty fast at 125 F, as in I could whisk them to trace in a minute. Yours doesn't look like something that needs a stick blender.

A lot of saturated fats speeds things up, the stearic in tallow maybe even more so. Castor speeds trace too. Between the temp and the oils, I would call it par for the course.

I usually try to soap a little cooler as long as I'm confident the oils won't start to congeal. Temp is the biggest factor if you need to slow it down. More water could help too, sometimes.

I'm not familiar with the FO, so don't know if that contributed as well.
 

newbie

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You can also try soaping cooler than 130 degrees. I think tallow melts around 100 degrees so with the olive and castor in there, you could soap much much cooler and you will have more time to work, even with a SB'er. If you are interested in doing colors or swirls or techniques that require some time, cooler will get you there, and even more so if you choose to whisk rather than SB.
 

LisaAnne

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I make recipes in that ballpark and they've moved pretty fast at 125 F, as in I could whisk them to trace in a minute. Yours doesn't look like something that needs a stick blender.

A lot of saturated fats speeds things up, the stearic in tallow maybe even more so. Castor speeds trace too. Between the temp and the oils, I would call it par for the course.

I usually try to soap a little cooler as long as I'm confident the oils won't start to congeal. Temp is the biggest factor if you need to slow it down. More water could help too, sometimes.

I'm not familiar with the FO, so don't know if that contributed as well.
Topofmurrayhill, you mention oils concealing at cooler temperatures. I was HP and now I make CP at room temperature. I also have been making 5-6 pound oil batches so I can make a pound or two at a time without out dragging it all out. When I want a pound of oils I stick blend all the oils and measure out my pound. Do I need to worry about concealing? And if I do would warming up my pound of oils a bit solve the problem?
 

IrishLass

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Topofmurrayhill, you mention oils concealing at cooler temperatures. I was HP and now I make CP at room temperature. I also have been making 5-6 pound oil batches so I can make a pound or two at a time without out dragging it all out. When I want a pound of oils I stick blend all the oils and measure out my pound. Do I need to worry about concealing? And if I do would warming up my pound of oils a bit solve the problem?
I'm not TOMH, but I do know a thing or two about congealing oils/fats. When this happens to me, I call it 'pseudo-trace', because it looks like my soap is tracing fast, but it's really just the harder fats in the formula coming out of their melted suspension/-re-solidifing.

Basically, the cause of pseudo trace (or congealing) is this: the batter is not warm enough for the harder fats to stay in melted, fluid suspension long enough in order for the heat-reaction of the lye to kick in and keep the fats from dropping too much below their melting points and precipitating out. I know that's a mouthful, but that's basically what happens.

If you find that certain hard fats and/or butters seem to cause things to move too fast, try soaping a little warmer.

To prevent pseudo-trace (congealing) in my own susceptible formulas, I try to prevent my batter from going below 110F. That's my sweet-spot. Your own sweet spot might be different, though, depending on your formula.


IrishLass :)
 

topofmurrayhill

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Topofmurrayhill, you mention oils concealing at cooler temperatures. I was HP and now I make CP at room temperature. I also have been making 5-6 pound oil batches so I can make a pound or two at a time without out dragging it all out. When I want a pound of oils I stick blend all the oils and measure out my pound. Do I need to worry about concealing? And if I do would warming up my pound of oils a bit solve the problem?
I of course agree with what IL said.

Your larger 5 to 6 pound master batch of oils should tell you how your recipe behaves at room temperature. If the oils cloud up or begin to solidify, then you have to be careful that the master batch is evenly mixed before you measure out of it. You might very well be able to do that with the stick blender and not have to warm up the oils, which would be nice. You be the judge.

When it comes to the oils that you measure out, those need to be totally clear and melted for soaping. They should be comfortably above the temperature where the oils start to cloud up, so that they don't cool off too much while you're bringing your batter to trace. As IL said, that could cause "false trace" and other problems.

Room temperature soaping was popularized by people making soft recipes where the oils are clear at room temperature. It's not suitable for all recipes.
 

LisaAnne

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I'm not TOMH, but I do know a thing or two about congealing oils/fats. When this happens to me, I call it 'pseudo-trace', because it looks like my soap is tracing fast, but it's really just the harder fats in the formula coming out of their melted suspension/-re-solidifing.

Basically, the cause of pseudo trace (or congealing) is this: the batter is not warm enough for the harder fats to stay in melted, fluid suspension long enough in order for the heat-reaction of the lye to kick in and keep the fats from dropping too much below their melting points and precipitating out. I know that's a mouthful, but that's basically what happens.

If you find that certain hard fats and/or butters seem to cause things to move too fast, try soaping a little warmer.

To prevent pseudo-trace (congealing) in my own susceptible formulas, I try to prevent my batter from going below 110F. That's my sweet-spot. Your own sweet spot might be different, though, depending on your formula.


IrishLass :)
Thanks so much, I see I have been doing it wrong and need to change a few steps. I really appreciate your help, I'm winging it here, lots of studying but help from experienced soapers is invaluable
 

LisaAnne

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I of course agree with what IL said.

Your larger 5 to 6 pound master batch of oils should tell you how your recipe behaves at room temperature. If the oils cloud up or begin to solidify, then you have to be careful that the master batch is evenly mixed before you measure out of it. You might very well be able to do that with the stick blender and not have to warm up the oils, which would be nice. You be the judge.

When it comes to the oils that you measure out, those need to be totally clear and melted for soaping. They should be comfortably above the temperature where the oils start to cloud up, so that they don't cool off too much while you're bringing your batter to trace. As IL said, that could cause "false trace" and other problems.

Room temperature soaping was popularized by people making soft recipes where the oils are clear at room temperature. It's not suitable for all recipes.
Thanks you, your input is so valuable to me. I tend to soap over my head. I need to make some adjustments to my steps, I think things will go better now.
 

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