Experiment on figuring out why my soaps keep going rancid

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@paradisi I’m sorry to hear that you had a bad experience. As I mentioned, I haven’t had any issues. Is this the thread you were referring to with respect to adulteration? Apparently it was a processing plant contamination issue that was identified and rectified.
 

Becky1024

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I have to congratulate you on sticking with it to figure out the problem! You mentioned HP. Do you monitor the temperature of the soap as it is cooking? I like to keep my soaps cooking at 190 -210F. That’s what works for me but I don’t use palm or palm kernel oil. I’m not sure how hot you can heat them before the they break down. I use a stainless steel meat thermometer to monitor temperature.
 

paradisi

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To me this year (shortening or some other high melt palm blend that stayed solid at well over 100 degrees for days, in the sun on my porch, instead of rspo palm which if course ought to have been liquid the first afternoon for stirring); to another member here a couple years ago (the corn oil adulteration), and to a soaper on another forum I know (cocoa butter with something chalky in it), etc.

I got organic palm from them for many years, but have switched to a different supplier as they refused to admit there was anything wrong, even with photos.

So, yeah, the problem isn't always the soaper, sometimes it's the materials.
And all of those were mislabeled or adulterated, not mis-shipped.
 

paradisi

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@paradisi I’m sorry to hear that you had a bad experience. As I mentioned, I haven’t had any issues. Is this the thread you were referring to with respect to adulteration? Apparently it was a processing plant contamination issue that was identified and rectified.
The corn oil problem, yes, but they do their own processing.

The palm oil problem I had this summer was mislabeling, which they tried to tell me was impossible, that I didn't know what palm oil was like. Mistakes happen, but misrepresentations are a whole nother thing.
 
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I used to have a problem with DOS. I live in South Florida and of course that’s part of the problem. I live in constant AC however. When my AC broke (2X so far) all my soaps started sweating and I lost quite a few. I changed a lot of things with my soap making and now haven’t had DOS for at least 2 years. First, every time I open a bottle of oil, I add 1 gram (1 gram per 1000 grams of oil) of ROE. That helps protect the oils until they are used up. I add citric acid at 2% to every soap batch (add to the lye water so the lye converts the citric acid to sodium citrate) - and I add EDTA (5 grams) to every batch. Except for a soap high in Coconut Oil, I keep my super fat to 5% or less. With these changes no more DOS. I keep several soaps outside my door for delivery people and even sitting in the heat & humidity, no DOS which is great.
 

dibbles

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With unhydrogenated palms, the entire container has to be melted, mixed thoroughly, then batch oils measured out. Every time. The fatty acids separate, and that can throw off the saponification of the oil used….meaning your soap MAY be more super fatted than you want. (Or lye heavy, depending on where the fatty acids collected when they solidified)


That’s about the extent of my knowledge on the matter. I’d like to get someone like @deanna @dibbles or others to voice their opinions on the palm.
It looks like you've been able to find information to answer your questions. I don't use much palm as I prefer lard, so I really don't have anything to add. I have been using no stir palm for the last year or two, and be sure I have enough that I don't have to order it in the summer when it could melt when it is shipped. Very early on I did use regular palm and melted it, poured into smaller jars which I melted and stirred each time I used it. At one point I did have a larger bucket of palm that I didn't melt before using and had no ill effects from doing that. And that is about all I know from my own experience.
 

Jen74

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[QUOTE="Jen74, post: 907407, member: 34
Thank you for the response and all the help. I agree with all you have said. I will try making the batch again with the ROE and more lye like before. I bought a jeweler's scale to measure out the ROE. How much should I put for 2 lbs of soap? I just added like a few drops this last time. What is BHT? Would this be used in place of ROE? Does it help prevent rancidity? Thanks so much for all your help..♥

One reason I started making soap myself is because when I moved to dry S. California - there was no soap sold in stores that didn't suck the life out of my skin. So I completely understand your mission!!

Wait a sec...why the batch with more lye? That is the lower super fat one?

The jeweler's scale for the roe is a wonderful choice - you can then measure the least amount recommended in case that is what is irritating your skin.

Although, now that I think more about it, since you have fresh oils from a reputable supplier, and palm and palm kernel are just not that prone to dos, you could make a 1 pound batch of soap without the roe - BUT continue with the dehumidifying and a low super fat.

If I remember correctly, ROE comes in different strengths. Your supplier may have given you a recommended amount...? I'm going to take this directly from Deanna's website: (italicized). ***keep in mind that more is NOT better; too much ROE causes rancidity!!*
suggest no more than 0.5 grams ROE per 1000 grams of fat (0.05% based on total fat weight) to help preserve fats in storage or for use in soap.


The dosage range I have found reported in the literature is 0.2 to 1.0 g ROE per 1000 g fat (0.02% to 0.1% based on total fat weight). If you want to use another dosage other than 0.05%, replace the 0.05 in the formula above with the number you want to use instead.

These numbers are based on ROE with 5% to 7% carnosic acid content. If the carnosic acid content in your ROE is lower than that, then adjust the dosage accordingly.

Kevin Dunn recommends 1.0 g ROE for every 1000 g oils (0.1% of total fat weight) to be added when making soap. He found ROE by itself to be an effective "natural" treatment for rancidity (DOS, dreaded orange spots) in soap. He suggests an even more effective but less "natural" combination of 1.0 g ROE and 0.5 g tetrasodium EDTA powder for every 1000 g oils. (3)


Yes, bht does what roe does. Its very common in fats used for food service to prevent rancidity. I have bought 50lb cubes of palm, lard, and tallow all with but and citric acid added. They're stored in a dark cool closet in the garage, not the ideal conditions - but they last for years. The palm is 3 years old, and what I don't finish this year will just be tossed.

Did I cover everything?
[/QUOTE]


Yes, thank you for all of the help and information. I greatly appreciate it..♥️
 

Marsi

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i read back through some of your posts and i am not sure if you are still adding glycerin

adding glycerin to soap in high humidity will draw moisture to the soap and it will sweat for weeks
soap can go rancid quickly if it is warm and wet
 

Zany_in_CO

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I bought a jeweler's scale to measure out the ROE. How much should I put for 2 lbs of soap?
To answer all your questions about ROE, there's good info and a PDF to download in this thread:

ANOTHER ROE & DOS THREAD

I use ROE and Vitamin E (1000 IU capsule per pound) in every batch I've made since I first started soaping in 2004. I've never had DOS but then, that may be because of Denver's dry Alpine Dessert climate, LOW humidity. Not sure. :smallshrug:

Because ROE is so thick, to make it easier to work with I dilute it when it first arrives.

ROE DILUTION IN JOJOBA

HTH :goodbye1:
 
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