Excess of ROE

Soapmaking Forum

Help Support Soapmaking Forum:

Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
9,025
Reaction score
16,057
Location
US
Was too tired last night and should have known better… but I added ROE at 1% instead of .1%.

Am trying to decide whether I can fix this by masterbatching all the lard with other non-treated oils in order to bring down the overall percentage. Still not sure I can dilute it enough to be in the correct usage rate.

Any other suggestions, or should I toss this batch?
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
14,269
Reaction score
21,800
Location
USA
I would be concerned that ROE at this dosage would accelerate oxidation and rancidity rather than retard it. One study I read reported ROE was a pro-oxidant at 0.5% in their experiments. That suggests your 1% dosage is a lot higher than is ideal.

To get the ROE dosage down to the 0.05% rate I recommend, you'd have to dilute the ROE-treated lard with 20 times its weight of plan fat. That might not be practical to do all in one go. But you could store the lard in the fridge or freezer and use it up over time.
 

ResolvableOwl

Notorious Lyear
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Messages
2,571
Reaction score
6,939
Location
Germany
What carnosic acid content is your ROE specified at? Does the manufacturer recommend usage rates?

Just a cautionary tale about (deliberate) ROE overdose: I used 0.6%TOM from my ROE (7–9% carnosic acid), and it already started interfering with trace, gave weird discolouration and a noticeable smell:
Today, some 129 days after starting this experiment, it is of course still running. The colour has largely faded, but a slight greenish hue is still noticeable, as well as a faint rosemary smell. Unlike the un-ROE-d soap I don't notice any rancidity yet – but of course a few months is no time to judge pro-oxidation to happen, particularly in comparison to professionals who have more precise & quantitative apparatuses to measure the onset and speed of fat decay.

Have I understood you correctly that you have added it to pure lard? Then you could also, to not inflate the amount of oils all in once, cast it brimful into tightly closing containers (glass jars, e. g.), let it solidify with as little air as possible, and then store in the fridge/freezer (no air = no oxidation, cooler = slower reaction). Then think of it as a pre-diluted ROE, and add 10% to otherwise ROE-free oil blends when due.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
9,025
Reaction score
16,057
Location
US
Thank you both, @DeeAnna and @ResolvableOwl for your very helpful responses. FWIW, the carnosic acid was 5% per the distributor, and it was added to pure lard. It's already solidified in the fridge. The containers are close to but not completely full, so to slow oxidation, I should probably add a layer of plastic wrap over the surface before putting the lids back on.

I guess I have to decide whether I want to spend the next umpteen months calculating the amount of treated lard I can use in each different batch, scooping that out, and then scooping untreated lard out of yet another bucket. 😖 As much as I hate tossing things out, that may end up being the outcome here.
 

ResolvableOwl

Notorious Lyear
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Messages
2,571
Reaction score
6,939
Location
Germany
Umm, I'm not exactly target audience for pig juice … and overseas shipping is also more something for the patient, not me.

Seriously. You haven't said how much lard you're talking about. I find ROE a pain to work with (measure tiny quantities) at my usual batch sizes, and recommend everyone getting oils in small quantities and/or making small soap batches to pre-dilute ROE for easier dosage. I myself first aimed at casting ROE in intermediate dilution in cocoa butter into tiny chocolate bars, but decided for HO sunflower oil in a drop bottle. Remember that ROE comes in a liquid (unsaturated) carrier oil, and pro-oxidation doesn't mean instantaneous decay. My as-air-free-as-possible advice was meant for long-term storage (months or longer), which it is only reasonable for just about any ingredient.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
9,025
Reaction score
16,057
Location
US
It was about 1.5 gallons altogether after rendering; if it were water it would be about 12 lbs, and my guess is that a gallon of lard is heavier than a gallon of water. All in all, not a minute amount, but not huge, either. If it were one or the other, the decision would be eaiser.

Ah well. For now it will reside in the fridge with plastic wrap on the surface, secured by a lid over the entire bucket. If you chance your mind about pig juice, you know where to find me. ;)
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
9,025
Reaction score
16,057
Location
US
Sorry, I realized right after typing that it wasn't right. Already corrected it to say, basically, "heavier than an equal volume of water."

My scale only goes up to 5000g so I don't have anything to weigh this big container of lard. The only thing that helps me guess is that it was formerly a container of coconut oil. Now if only I hadn't scrubbed off the printing that showed the weight of the coconut oil in that tub, I could probably tell you the weight of the lard.
 

ResolvableOwl

Notorious Lyear
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Messages
2,571
Reaction score
6,939
Location
Germany
No prob. I'd just be surprised if a chunk of lard (or a drop of molten lard) would sink in water (= heavier than its own volume of water) or float (= lighter than water) – no weighing necessary. Archimedes would be very angry if you defeat his buoyancy laws. 🤣
 

Tara_H

Mad scientist
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2019
Messages
1,237
Reaction score
3,758
Location
Ireland
Prediluted ROE for sale... 😆

Sure, I'm happy to ship a free sample to you in Germany, if you want to pay postage. ;)
Haha ok I'm not sure if you're serious but I'd be quite tempted! I'm super curious to try lard in soap but I haven't managed to find a source. Even my butcher who gives me the tallow has no lard for love nor money. Literally I've been considering ordering it from Russia, although that may be a reflection on my lack of shipping skill...
 

Latest posts

Top