Evaluating Recipe on SoapCalc

[math ace]

I am ready to start exploring different CP soap recipes. I've spent some time reading and have discovered these General guidelines Basics:

1.) Aim for a 60% hard oils and 40% soft oils

2.) Aim for coconut oil to be 15 - 30%

3.) Keep Castor oil at 5 - 10%

With that in mind, I have came up with the following recipe. It has no palm oil.
If I don't want to use Lard, do I need Palm Oil?
Does Palm Oil bring something special to a soap recipe?

I think the "Soap Bar Quality" characteristics are pretty good for this recipe.
What else should I be considering when evaluating a recipe?

 

[Carly B]

You don't need palm oil. It hardens the soap, but it's not necessary. Cocoa butter and coconut oil will do a lot for firming your soap. I just play with soap calc to see what I come up with. I usually try to have the cleansing around 17, then see how high a number I can get for conditioning without dropping the cleansing number.

You just have to try a bunch of different recipes and see what you'd like. If you're experimenting, I wouldn't start with a 3 pound recipe. That's a lot of soap if you don't like the recipe. I just made a soap to try using 80% lard, but I only used a total of 8 oz of oils. It came out to 3 bars. Enough to try and share, and if I like it, I can always make it again in a larger batch.

 

[TheGecko]

What else should I be considering when evaluating a recipe?

For a first soap, I recommend cutting your recipe down to 1 lb of oils. I started with a 2lb recipe and it only took me a couple of failures...three to be honest (I can be stubborn)...to buy a couple of 1lb molds (4” Silicone) so I wouldn’t be tossing so much money down the drain.

 

[math ace]

I've been using Bramble Berry's "Lot's of Lather" recipe for the last 5 months. It is basically 32% Coconut oil, 32% Palm Oil, 32% Olive Oil, and 4% castor oil. I think it is a little drying to my skin. Needless to say, I want to try a few new recipes.

I resized the recipe for 1 lb. of oils. Plus, while looking back at my notes, I found that it is recommended that Cocoa butter and Shea Butter be limited to 15% to avoid cracking. I decided to add the Palm oil back into the recipe so that I could cut back on the amount of cocoa butter. This is what I am thinking about now...

The cleansing is 17. The "Lot's of Lather" recipe had a cleansing number 0f 22. If I understand the theory behind this, the higher the cleansing number the more likely it will be drying to my skin.

The new recipe has a bubbly rating of 22. "Lot's of lather" had a bubbly rating of 26. I am planning on replacing at least 1/2 the water with aloe vera. I am hoping this will boost my bubbles.

What about the Iodine, INS, Lauric, Myristic, Palmitic, Stearic, Ricinoleic, Oleic, Linoleic, and Linolenic values? How do these items affect the soap?

 

[lsg]

You can use sodium lactate to harden soap. Usage rate is 1 tsp. per pound of oils. Add to lye water after it clears. There are several threads on the topic. Here is a link to one thread:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/search/14304994/?q=vegan+soap+without+palm&o=relevance

 

[math ace]

@ lsg Sodium lactate is a given with me. I always use it. However, isn't 45 a pretty hard bar anyways?

Do you know why iodine is listed on the soap calc figures? Do you know how iodine effects the soap?

Here is another question...
Super fat... What do you recommend?

I calculated these recipes at 6%.
Should I try something lower like 3 or 4 %. I think that would give me more bubbles, but I also think I would have a more drying bar of soap. Am I understanding the effect of super fat correctly?

What do you normally super fat at?

 

[Nona'sFarm]

This paper gives a great explanation of the meaning of the iodine and ins numbers.
https://classicbells.com/soap/iodineINS.asp

A superfat of 6% is a good place to start, then you can go up or down and see what you like best. Superfat is kind of like a lye discount, using less lye, so that some of your oils do not saponify.

Here is another article that discusses superfat:
https://classicbells.com/soap/superfat.asp

 

[Arimara]

I will throw this out there: you do not need 60% hard oils to 40% soft oils. That would be a dangerous trap to fall into. You also have avocado and olive oils in that recipe. Both of those oils can actually lend themselves to hardness after a long enough cure. You can also have upto 20% cocoa butter in a soap without having to worry about cracking. I regularly use 20% cocoa butter when I have it and have had no issues with cracking. I'm also soap warmer that a lot of other soapers.

If you're concerned about having a drying soap, perhaps dropping the coconut oil to 15-20% may help with that. A lot of us here do use that said amount of coconut oil since we either have drier skin or are more sensitive to saponified coconut oil.

 

[math ace]

This paper gives a great explanation of the meaning of the iodine and ins numbers.
https://classicbells.com/soap/iodineINS.asp

A superfat of 6% is a good place to start, then you can go up or down and see what you like best. Superfat is kind of like a lye discount, using less lye, so that some of your oils do not saponify.

Here is another article that discusses superfat:
https://classicbells.com/soap/superfat.asp

Thank you for the links to classic bells. My take away from the first article was that a high iodine value could be an indicator of a future issue with DOS. Likewise, if the sum of linoleic and linolenic acid is greater than 15% then the recipe could have issues with DOS or softness.

 

[math ace]

I will throw this out there: you do not need 60% hard oils to 40% soft oils. That would be a dangerous trap to fall into. You also have avocado and olive oils in that recipe. Both of those oils can actually lend themselves to hardness after a long enough cure. You can also have upto 20% cocoa butter in a soap without having to worry about cracking. I regularly use 20% cocoa butter when I have it and have had no issues with cracking. I'm also soap warmer that a lot of other soapers.

If you're concerned about having a drying soap, perhaps dropping the coconut oil to 15-20% may help with that. A lot of us here do use that said amount of coconut oil since we either have drier skin or are more sensitive to saponified coconut oil.

Actually, you are the second person in the last few hours to confirm that 20% butters (Shea or cocoa) works for them without cracking. The other person used lard in her recipe. Do you use lard with your 20% cocoa butter recipes?

The recipe that I've been using was 32% coconut oil. So, I want to see what a 7% drop in the coconut oil does before I go any lower. If I need to drop it more, then I'll try increasing the butters. I didn't have a problem with the previous recipe over the summer. However, once the dryer winter weather hit, it just seemed like it was a little too drying.

Plus, I also slightly raised my super fat in the new recipe. So, fingers crossed, this will be a good thing for my skin.

 

[math ace]

Here is another article that discusses superfat:
https://classicbells.com/soap/superfat.asp

What I took away from that second article is that I want some super fat just to make sure all the lye gets used up. Something in the 3% super fat range will ensure the lye gets used up.

I'm already facing a soap scum issue. So a higher super fat may not be the best route for me to try. Instead, I may be better off looking at the last column of numbers to make sure I'm creating a "classic blend" recipe.

From the article, I gather that I should be looking for " small amount of fat high in lauric and myristic acid (coconut, palm kernel, or babassu); a moderate amount of fat high in palmitic and stearic acid (lard, tallow, palm, or butters); and a moderate amount of fat high in oleic acid (olive, avocado, high oleic safflower, etc.) " To form classic blend recipe.

 

[math ace]

So now... How do we figured out small and moderate amounts?

My lauric and myristic total to 17.
Is this small?

My palmitic and steartic total to 28.
Is this moderate?

My oleic acid is 38.
This feels like a moderate amount lol... Just because it is bigger than the other two categories!

 

[penelopejane]

I don't use the numbers as it just does not work for me at all.
So personally, I'd forget all the rules you have. DeeAnna's comparison methods are the only ones worth testing.
The only way you can come up with a good soap is to test various recipes.
It is so very annoying but it is the truth.
My perfect recipe would be a B- for someone else because my skin is different to theirs.

I started with the 30/30/30/10 you mentioned in the first post. It is a great soap for cleaning and hardness. It lasts. Farmers and guys love it. But, it dries my skin summer or winter.
I now use <or equal to 5% castor
< or equal to 10% coconut
>40% olive oil
I never use <10% of any thing other than castor so >or equal to 10% avocado, almond, macadamia, shea butter etc
I don't use palm or lard or tallow or soy.

 

[math ace]

Thanks everyone for helping me through this. The classic bells articles were especially informing.

 

[SoapSisters]

I had a soap scum issue too. I started added 1% citric acid to my recipes and . . . no more scum! I dissolve the citric acid with some of the liquid from the recipe and add it to the lye/liquid mixture once all the lye has dissolved. The citric acid does "eat" some of the lye, so I make sure to input that amount into the soap calculator, and it takes the CA into consideration when calculating the lye amount. I use the Soap Making Friend calculator.

 

[Arimara]

Actually, you are the second person in the last few hours to confirm that 20% butters (Shea or cocoa) works for them without cracking. The other person used lard in her recipe. Do you use lard with your 20% cocoa butter recipes?
Nope. Those soaps are vegetarian and also palm-free.

The recipe that I've been using was 32% coconut oil. So, I want to see what a 7% drop in the coconut oil does before I go any lower. If I need to drop it more, then I'll try increasing the butters. I didn't have a problem with the previous recipe over the summer. However, once the dryer winter weather hit, it just seemed like it was a little too drying.

Plus, I also slightly raised my super fat in the new recipe. So, fingers crossed, this will be a good thing for my skin.

The blue reply is my answer. My main issue was the 60%-40% hard to soft oils. It's not a rule and may hinder your goals for a soap since a lot of good soap recipes have 40%= soaps.

 

[TheGecko]

The recipe that I've been using was 32% coconut oil. So, I want to see what a 7% drop in the coconut oil does before I go any lower. If I need to drop it more, then I'll try increasing the butters. I didn't have a problem with the previous recipe over the summer. However, once the dryer winter weather hit, it just seemed like it was a little too drying.

Are you making soap for yourself or planning on selling? One of the things that I did when I decided to take my soap making from a hobby to a business was to send my test soaps to friends and family from different parts of the country because I wanted a balanced soap that was good for the majority of folks the majority of time as I didn't want to venture into the cosmetic industry and it's regulations by producing soap for different skin types.

With that said, my regular recipe is 35% Olive Oil, 20% Coconut and Palm Oil, 10% Cocoa and Shea Butter and 5% Castor Oil. I'm using a standard Olive Oil...above Pomace, below EV. The Pomace is okay, but it does tend to trace faster and I didn't want to deal with the green tint you can get with EV since I don't color my GMS. The Butters are 'natural/organic'...meaning they haven't been refined or deodorized.

 

[math ace]

I had a soap scum issue too. I started added 1% citric acid to my recipes and . . . no more scum! I dissolve the citric acid with some of the liquid from the recipe and add it to the lye/liquid mixture once all the lye has dissolved. The citric acid does "eat" some of the lye, so I make sure to input that amount into the soap calculator, and it takes the CA into consideration when calculating the lye amount. I use the Soap Making Friend calculator.

Thanks for the tip! I've read that citric acid will work. I read it can work in conjunction with sodium gluconate too. So, I'm starting with that additive. I didn't add it in my soap calculation... I hope it doesn't cause a problem because I'm running with a 4% sf. I'll have to try soap making friend's software because I didn't see a spot to add it on the soap calc that I used

 

[math ace]

Are you making soap for yourself or planning on selling? One of the things that I did when I decided to take my soap making from a hobby to a business was to send my test soaps to friends and family from different parts of the country because I wanted a balanced soap that was good for the majority of folks the majority of time as I didn't want to venture into the cosmetic industry and it's regulations by producing soap for different skin types.

With that said, my regular recipe is 35% Olive Oil, 20% Coconut and Palm Oil, 10% Cocoa and Shea Butter and 5% Castor Oil.

Gecko,

I make soap as a craft outlet. I started with melt and pour. Now, I'm moving into CP. I give some away as gifts, my son has a standing order for lemongrass scented soaps, my daughter has a standing order for Macintosh Apple, and one of my sister's has a standing order for dragons blood.

I hear you about using family and friends for feedback.

 

[penelopejane]

Thanks for the tip! I've read that citric acid will work. I read it can work in conjunction with sodium gluconate too. So, I'm starting with that additive. I didn't add it in my soap calculation... I hope it doesn't cause a problem because I'm running with a 4% sf. I'll have to try soap making friend's software because I didn't see a spot to add it on the soap calc that I used

You don't need a soap calc to do the calculations for you.
You are actually using about -1% SF if you are not accounting for the extra NaOH needed to neutralise the Citric Acid you are using.
If you are using 1000g oils and want 1% CA that is 10g CA
10g CA x 6.24/10 = 6.24g extra NaOH than the recipe requires to keep the SF% that the soap calc says you are using.

You have to add 6.24g extra NaOH if you want to have 4% SF in your soap.