Quantcast

EO settles down at the bottom of the mould

SoapMakingForum

Help Support SoapMakingForum:

RameshM

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Location
India
Greetings Everyone!

In my CP, some of the EO is getting settled at the bottom of the mold. When I unmolded, I could see some of the EO at the very bottom of the mold. I added 35 gms of EO per kg of oil at medium trace and hand stirred. Soaping temp was about 115F. Has anyone encountered a similar situation? I encounter this situation in every batch of soap. My mold is made out of 18 mm MDF (medium density Fibreboard). EO is from a reputed company. AVSoap.jpegNot sure why this happens and how to fix this. Any suggestions are hightly appreciated. Thank you!
BTW, I was able to unmold the soap after 24 hrs and cut it. It was a sample batch of aloe vera soap weighing about 381 gms.
 
Last edited:

KimW

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
489
Reaction score
583
Location
Michigan, USA
You say this happens with every batch. Is every batch the exact same recipe with the same EO? Not knowing everything and not knowing how you're hand mixing, I can only guess the consistent result is due to the EO not being fully incorporated. When you pour in the EO, just like adding water to water, the pour initially travels straight down and then flows out horizontally and/or curls up the sides. BUT - many other factors could be at work.

Please share your recipe, including exactly what EO you used, and perhaps a photo of the bottom of the soap where you see EO on the bottom (this looks like a photo of a soap top...)?
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
13,149
Reaction score
18,502
Location
Northeast Iowa, USA
Not much detail to work with here -- please give more info.

What is your recipe? Provide ALL ingredients including additives and all in weights please. What is the EO?

Why do you think it's the EO that's settling out?

If you're pouring at medium trace, there's no way an EO could settle through a high viscosity mixture like this. You're more likely to see it in droplets scattered throughout the soap instead.

Furthermore many EOs are lighter than water and are also fat soluble, so I'm not sure it's reasonable to assume an EO would settle even if it was mixed into a very thin soap batter and could settle if it wanted to.

Have you done a test without EO to confirm? Or is there another reason for having this opinion?

I'm also a little puzzled about the photo. The white container below the soap looks like the bottom is facing upwards. The soap itself looks like the top is facing upwards. I am comparing the details on sides of the container with the sides of the soap to come to this conclusion. So are we looking at the top of the soap? Or are we looking at its bottom where the EO is supposed to be collecting?
 

amd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
3,667
Reaction score
5,023
Location
South Dakota
When I unmolded, I could see some of the EO at the very bottom of the mold.
Could we get a pic of what you are thinking is EO at the bottom of the mold? The pic you shared is confusing... it looks like a fine soap sitting on top of your inverted mold. I see no issues in your photo.

EO is from a reputed company.
Which company? What amount are you using in how big of a recipe?
 

earlene

Grandmother & Soaper
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
7,638
Reaction score
7,355
Location
Western Illinois, USA
I thought MDF was made of wood fibers & glue to hold it together, much like what we have in the US called plywood, and easily damaged by moisture, and with a rough, porous surface. I cannot reconcile the white mould picutred with my understanding of MDF, not without a liner of some sort to prevent the soap from damaging the MDF.

Or does MDF mean something different? Or is that white thing that has the same ridge design below the soap not the mould you used? If it is, and it's made of MDF, how is it lined?
 

RameshM

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Location
India
You say this happens with every batch. Is every batch the exact same recipe with the same EO? Not knowing everything and not knowing how you're hand mixing, I can only guess the consistent result is due to the EO not being fully incorporated. When you pour in the EO, just like adding water to water, the pour initially travels straight down and then flows out horizontally and/or curls up the sides. BUT - many other factors could be at work.

Please share your recipe, including exactly what EO you used, and perhaps a photo of the bottom of the soap where you see EO on the bottom (this looks like a photo of a soap top...)?
 

Attachments

RameshM

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Location
India
Not much detail to work with here -- please give more info.

What is your recipe? Provide ALL ingredients including additives and all in weights please. What is the EO?

Why do you think it's the EO that's settling out?

If you're pouring at medium trace, there's no way an EO could settle through a high viscosity mixture like this. You're more likely to see it in droplets scattered throughout the soap instead.

Furthermore many EOs are lighter than water and are also fat soluble, so I'm not sure it's reasonable to assume an EO would settle even if it was mixed into a very thin soap batter and could settle if it wanted to.

Have you done a test without EO to confirm? Or is there another reason for having this opinion?

I'm also a little puzzled about the photo. The white container below the soap looks like the bottom is facing upwards. The soap itself looks like the top is facing upwards. I am comparing the details on sides of the container with the sides of the soap to come to this conclusion. So are we looking at the top of the soap? Or are we looking at its bottom where the EO is supposed to be collecting?
8 gms of cedarwood EO was used. I reason why I feel that its EO thats settling down is because:

1) with just a little pressure, the whole soap block (about 381 gms) just got released out of the white plastic mold so easily. I did not even line the mold.
2) when I checked the inside of the mold, it was too wet and I could get the lovely cedarwood smell. Perhaps it could also be both unsaponified oils + EO

My concern is - If it's oil, I don't mind, but if it's EO that is settling down, then my soap would not have the desired fragrance.
 

RameshM

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Location
India
I thought MDF was made of wood fibers & glue to hold it together, much like what we have in the US called plywood, and easily damaged by moisture, and with a rough, porous surface. I cannot reconcile the white mould picutred with my understanding of MDF, not without a liner of some sort to prevent the soap from damaging the MDF.

Or does MDF mean something different? Or is that white thing that has the same ridge design below the soap not the mould you used? If it is, and it's made of MDF, how is it lined?
Sorry for the confusion. The white mold shown in the picture is a plastic mold without any lining used for making a sample aloe vera soap of batch weight = 381 gms.
Attaching my MDF molds that I use on a regular basis. I made these MDF molds myself using my CNC router machine.
When I use MDF molds, I line it up using butter paper or shrink wrap. Hope this clears the confusion. BTW, I've also make a fully functional soap slab cutter.
 

Attachments

RameshM

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Location
India
8 gms of cedarwood EO was used. I reason why I feel that its EO thats settling down is because:

1) with just a little pressure, the whole soap block (about 381 gms) just got released out of the white plastic mold so easily. I did not even line the mold.
2) when I checked the inside of the mold, it was too wet and I could get the lovely cedarwood smell. Perhaps it could also be both unsaponified oils + EO

My concern is - If it's oil, I don't mind, but if it's EO that is settling down, then my soap would not have the desired fragrance.
recipe shared as a reply to KimW. Thank you.
 

RameshM

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Location
India
Not much detail to work with here -- please give more info.

What is your recipe? Provide ALL ingredients including additives and all in weights please. What is the EO?

Why do you think it's the EO that's settling out?

If you're pouring at medium trace, there's no way an EO could settle through a high viscosity mixture like this. You're more likely to see it in droplets scattered throughout the soap instead.

Furthermore many EOs are lighter than water and are also fat soluble, so I'm not sure it's reasonable to assume an EO would settle even if it was mixed into a very thin soap batter and could settle if it wanted to.

Have you done a test without EO to confirm? Or is there another reason for having this opinion?

I'm also a little puzzled about the photo. The white container below the soap looks like the bottom is facing upwards. The soap itself looks like the top is facing upwards. I am comparing the details on sides of the container with the sides of the soap to come to this conclusion. So are we looking at the top of the soap? Or are we looking at its bottom where the EO is supposed to be collecting?
I missed on the additives.

1) 32 gms of fresh aloe vera gel [125 gms of fresh aloe vera gel per kg of oil]
2) 1.5 gm of green pigment color powder [6 gms of colorant per kg of oil]
3) 2 gms of Sodium Lactate. [8 gms of SL per kg of oil]
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
13,149
Reaction score
18,502
Location
Northeast Iowa, USA
...with just a little pressure, the whole soap block (about 381 gms) just got released out of the white plastic mold so easily. I did not even line the mold...
What you're describing is normal behavior for any soap in a smooth, flexible plastic mold. You don't have to line a smooth, flexible mold like this. That's the reason why people use flexible molds made of silicone or other plastics.

The various cedarwood EOs I checked all have a density of less than 1.0, which means they float on water. Until you can prove your particular cedarwood EO has a specific gravity of MORE than 1.0, it's physically impossible for this EO to sink to the bottom even in a water-thin mixture. And again, I remind you of the difficulty of any liquid having the ability to float or sink when mixed into a viscous (thick) soap batter.

"...when I checked the inside of the mold, it was too wet and I could get the lovely cedarwood smell. Perhaps it could also be both unsaponified oils + EO. If it's oil, I don't mind, but if it's EO that is settling down, then my soap would not have the desired fragrance..."

What you are describing here -- the easy release, the scent on the soap and in the mold, and the wetness are all related to the type of mold you're using and the normal behavior of soap whether it has scent or not.

This idea of "my EO is sinking" is not accurate and this mis-perception is keeping you from really understanding what you're doing.
 

GemstonePony

Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
889
Reaction score
1,099
Location
Minnesota, USA
I was trying to add glitters :)
And it looks nice, but do you wrap it in anything? Cover it with anything? Place it in a warm area? Place it in a cold area? How hot/cold?
You can get condensation from temperature extremes, and oil can separate out from overheating. Not the EO, specifically, just oil from your batch.
It's perfectly normal for plastic and silicone to smell like the EOs/FOs they've contained, and for there to be some residue left behind.
 

RameshM

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Location
India
What you're describing is normal behavior for any soap in a smooth, flexible plastic mold. You don't have to line a smooth, flexible mold like this. That's the reason why people use flexible molds made of silicone or other plastics.

The various cedarwood EOs I checked all have a density of less than 1.0, which means they float on water. Until you can prove your particular cedarwood EO has a specific gravity of MORE than 1.0, it's physically impossible for this EO to sink to the bottom even in a water-thin mixture. And again, I remind you of the difficulty of any liquid having the ability to float or sink when mixed into a viscous (thick) soap batter.

"...when I checked the inside of the mold, it was too wet and I could get the lovely cedarwood smell. Perhaps it could also be both unsaponified oils + EO. If it's oil, I don't mind, but if it's EO that is settling down, then my soap would not have the desired fragrance..."

What you are describing here -- the easy release, the scent on the soap and in the mold, and the wetness are all related to the type of mold you're using and the normal behavior of soap whether it has scent or not.

This idea of "my EO is sinking" is not accurate and this mis-perception is keeping you from really understanding what you're doing.
Thank you so much. I don't say that all the EO settles down, at least some quantity do stick to the bottom and sides of the mold. I'm concerned about that "some quantity". Should I consider adding a small %tage more so that the soaps have the desired fragrance?
Thank you again! Happy weekend too!
 

RameshM

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Location
India
And it looks nice, but do you wrap it in anything? Cover it with anything? Place it in a warm area? Place it in a cold area? How hot/cold?
You can get condensation from temperature extremes, and oil can separate out from overheating. Not the EO, specifically, just oil from your batch.
It's perfectly normal for plastic and silicone to smell like the EOs/FOs they've contained, and for there to be some residue left behind.
Thank you so much. My concern is about the residue. Should I consider this residue compensation in my recipe?
Thank you again! Happy weekend too!
 

Peachy Clean Soap

Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
482
Reaction score
633
Location
Southern California
Sorry for the confusion. The white mold shown in the picture is a plastic mold without any lining used for making a sample aloe vera soap of batch weight = 381 gms.
Attaching my MDF molds that I use on a regular basis. I made these MDF molds myself using my CNC router machine.
When I use MDF molds, I line it up using butter paper or shrink wrap. Hope this clears the confusion. BTW, I've also make a fully functional soap slab cutter.
Nice mold's & your soap colors look beautiful. As far as the EO sinking to bottom i'm not an expert by any means' but I'd venture to say either using to much EO's and not mixing them good enough. Happy Soaping 💫🧼
 

KimW

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
489
Reaction score
583
Location
Michigan, USA
See DeeAnna's reply for your answer. It sounds like you're assuming the EO is settling on the bottom ONLY because:
1. The soap comes easily out of the mold
2. There's a "wetness" to the soap
3. The scent of the EO is strong

As DeeAnna said, these are all normal. I'm sorry that I may have led you down the wrong path of understanding. I wrongly assumed from your original description that you were literally seeing a layer of your EO on the bottom of your soap, but now it sounds like that is not the case. I do apologize. P.S. Pretty soaps, btw! :)
 
Top