Embracing the Brown

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On the original homemade vanilla stabilizer thread, another Canadian member @Saponificarian suggested this source. Perhaps she can chime in with a Canadian source if she's found one? In the meantime, check Voyageur and Windy Point, as well as sites that sell aquarium, wine, and photography supplies. Apparently this stuff has many uses. :)
 
I made my first vanilla soap with Tahitian Vanilla from NDA and was aware it was going to go brown so I worked with it by splitting my batter and whitening with white kaolin clay. It came out pretty I think. I didn’t expect it to be so white. F562E1C4-D7C6-439B-91D2-E917D078F814.jpeg
 
I wonder if a mica pencil line layer would stop the bleed?
Yes, there is a video from Eve's Garden Soaps (Ione Eve) where she does that. Lemme find it.

Hmmm can't find it, and it looks like some of her older videos have been edited quite a bit (less talking, more music). But the best I can recall, she used a mica line in one soap to prevent bleeding. In another, she made a layer with the darkening fragrance at the bottom. Then there was a small middle layer with no fragrance, but she colored it brown with mica or cocoa. Then the top layer was pretty and swirly with a non-discoloring fragrance. The middle unfragranced layer worked to block the color bleeding into the top section. But that does make for rather limited design options, I would think.

@John Harris have you checked ebay.ca for thiosulfate? Sometimes it's spelled -phate instead of -fate.
 
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When you say you split it, do you mean that you didn't put the FO in half the batch?
I fragranced the whole batch, just added the clay to half of it. I didn’t get any bleed through. Although the clay half had more water in it as well from when I mixed the clay before putting in my oils. I’ve found that the clay thickens the batter too much without additional water to hydrate the clay.
 
Ummm - 'White Vanilla' is kind of an oxymoron in this case innit? I like the idea of doing a wood grain effect wiht half coloured (scented) and half uncoloured (Unscented). Just divide the two and do a fine ribbon pour up and down the loaf, alternating colours as you go. Cut on the cross from how you usually cut it.
 
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There are two recipes for ZVCS; one contains Metabisulfate , Thiosulfate and Distilled Water and the other is just Metabisulfate and Distilled Water. The first one is closer to the VCSs that are found commercially, but the second one works just fine as illustrated from my photos above.

Let's say I have a friend who is going to make the simplified version of the stabilizer in a 32 fl. ounce bottle. How much distilled water does he use and how much metabisulfate? Oh! And what is the usage rate? (Ok, ok ... So he is a little dense.) :smallshrug:
 
First, tell your friend that he shouldn't punish himself with these stupid imperial units. (Don't tell him that stupid metric units don't make anything easier.)
Then, tell him that it's an unfortunate historical bad habit of the SMF folks that they call this you-know-which wine preservative “metabisulfate” rather than “metabisulfite” (though, again, the label on the bag doesn't change the properties of the product).

Leaving out the thiosulfate from ZCS means you're on your own, and you have to validate every step anew, without reassurance and backing from @Todd Ziegler et al. Enter JCS (John's Colour Stabiliser)
This new uncertainty includes first and foremost the JCS dosage. For ZCS it was found appropriate to use it 1:1 to the FO.
Now we have to guess how much 32 fl. oz of your FO weigh. Let's assume 1 kg for now.

The Lazy John recipe (without thiosulfate) calls for 3 parts sodium metabisulfite per 10 parts water.
JCS target batch: 1 kg = 13 parts
Water: 10 parts = 10/13 kg = 769 g
Sodium metabisulfite: 3 parts = 3/13 kg = 231 g

(Per kg of the original ZCS recipe with thiosulfate, you'd need 10/16 = 625 g water and 3/16 = 188 g of the two sulfuric salts.)

So he is a little dense.) :smallshrug:
Yes. Density is the reason why we prefer weights over volumetric measurements whenever possible. Including VCS, which is most likely denser than the FO in question, i. e. will have a smaller volume for the 1:1 dosage.


Why so angry? Wasn't this your business just as well? Or have you grown out of that phase?
 
@ResolvableOwl Oh god... I am thoroughly confused now. So many questions...

BTW, I'm trying to find thiosulfate in Canada but every place I've found will only sell to a lab or to a school. That's why I was trying to get away with using Gecko's path of just using metabisulfate. It seems to have worked out well for him/her. And I have metabisulfate sitting on my dining room table. Hence the proposed shortcut. I do have some thiosulfate being shipped to my father in the States. I hope to get down there in a couple of months. but, y'know, it's soap and I just can't wait!

So I guess I should weigh the amount of water that will fill my 32 oz. bottle? And then, should it be 3 parts metabisulfate or 6 parts (the second 3 parts making up for the thiosulfite that is missing?)

Actually, in science (and in science ONLY!) I prefer working in grams for the sake of uniformity and precision. But in everyday life I prefer all the variations of the world. How I love it when someone describes his/her weight in stones! I have no idea what it means, but I love hearing it. I consider the metric system to be the modern day "Newsspeak" (from George Orwell's 1984) which only permitted one word to be used for something - no synonyms were allowed.

On second thought, maybe I should just stay quiet and wait til I can get down to my father's. :oops:
 
I thought I would post my brown (decadent chocolate and mint (EO) soap) since we are talking about brown CP.

I thought I would post my brown (decadent chocolate and mint (EO) soap) since we are talking about brown CP.
Sorry the wrapped on was an accident and cannot find how to delete it.
 

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Let's say I have a friend who is going to make the simplified version of the stabilizer in a 32 fl. ounce bottle. How much distilled water does he use and how much metabisulfate? Oh! And what is the usage rate? (Ok, ok ... So he is a little dense.) :smallshrug:

ZVCS (23.1% metabisulfate, 76.9% distilled water) 1:1 with my FO.

So for 32 oz you would use 7.4 oz metabisulfate and 24.6 oz distilled water. Shake until dissolved. I have to warn you, it stinks, but once it’s mixed in…nothing. And it didn’t affect the scent or the batter.

You the same amount as the scent. 1 oz FO, 1 oz ZVCS

Now the first time I used it with Ancient Sedona, my soap was a bit…sticky. I wasn’t sure if that was a side effect, or something else. The second time I used it was with Autumn Harvest…no sticky. Now I had used colorants the first time, but none the second time…don’t know if that had anything to do with it. I’ll try and make some time Friday to make another test batch with AH, but with colorants; I’ll try clay, mica, pigment and ultramarine to see if there is a difference.
 
Bisulfite is added to photographic fixer to protect thiosulfate from reacting with the oxygen in the air (as it is added to wine to protect subtle grape aromas and fermentation byproducts from reacting with the oxygen in the air). Sulfites are also included in many developer recipes, to prevent the developing substances (that usually happen to be polyvalent phenols just like vanillin) from reacting with the oxygen in the air, hence from – turning brown 😲.

I don't know much about the chemistry of vanillin oxidation, I expect the (bi)sulfite to be the main oxidation protector on the short and middle term. If you're lucky, it just keeps up as long as the soap lasts, and you don't need a long-term colour stabiliser (thiosulfate).

And then, should it be 3 parts metabisulfate or 6 parts (the second 3 parts making up for the thiosulfite that is missing?)
These are the decisions that the inventor of a new recipe is facing. 🤷‍♀️

Or you could rely on @TheGecko's experiences and indeed replace the thiosulfate with just water.

BTW: I find it not particularly difficult to find suppliers for thiosulfate. It doesn't appear to me too hard to purchase it (as photographic fixer or pool water chlorine remover).
 
ZVCS (23.1% metabisulfate, 76.9% distilled water) 1:1 with my FO.

So for 32 oz you would use 7.4 oz metabisulfate and 24.6 oz distilled water. Shake until dissolved. I have to warn you, it stinks, but once it’s mixed in…nothing. And it didn’t affect the scent or the batter.

You the same amount as the scent. 1 oz FO, 1 oz ZVCS

Pardon me for not letting go of this bone, but when you are talking "ounces" I assume you are talking fluid ounces? How does one measure out 24.6 fluid ounces of water? The measuring cup I use to cook with would be very imprecise I would think.
 
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