What kisha said. Also, it is kind of funny that she thinks *this* board is unfriendly, the Dishers would eat her alive. I actually like Dish and the Dishers, they have been very kind to me, but there is no question that they do not suffer ungrateful newbies kindly. And this and the Dish are definitely the most active, useful, informative soap boards on the net.
Easy recipe with farm ingredients
- Thread starter tatumhills
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Dorymae
Well-Known Member
Perception it is all perception.
What some view as rude others view as good advice. To be fair, I'm sure the OP didn't realize that asking a bunch of long time soapers to give up the recipes they use to make their living is considered rude. I'm sure she just thought she was asking for a little help.
From the perspective of a soaper who makes her living from it, I will tell you that the idea of someone just starting out doing a demonstration is shocking. Not because we fear competion, but because we fear your lack of knowledge influencing other people. I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to explain why people reacted to your post.
You see we have seen many newer soapers with ideas they think are correct but can actually be harmful. ( An example of this would be flushing a lye spill on your arm with vinegar - don't ever do it!) So we fear you may unintentionally give out harmful advice because you don't know better. Remember we don't know you, and we can only go by the one fact we have-that you are a newer soaper. So we err on the side of caution and give you the best advice we can based on what we know.
I can tell you that I don't know of anyone here that is truly rude or intends to chase off new soapers. I myself was called to task for a statement I made which offended others. I didn't blame anyone or get defensive, I simply didn't realize that what I wrote did not reflect what I had meant. When I had explained and apologized for my statement I believe people understood my intention.
Perception is everything.
What some view as rude others view as good advice. To be fair, I'm sure the OP didn't realize that asking a bunch of long time soapers to give up the recipes they use to make their living is considered rude. I'm sure she just thought she was asking for a little help.
From the perspective of a soaper who makes her living from it, I will tell you that the idea of someone just starting out doing a demonstration is shocking. Not because we fear competion, but because we fear your lack of knowledge influencing other people. I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to explain why people reacted to your post.
You see we have seen many newer soapers with ideas they think are correct but can actually be harmful. ( An example of this would be flushing a lye spill on your arm with vinegar - don't ever do it!) So we fear you may unintentionally give out harmful advice because you don't know better. Remember we don't know you, and we can only go by the one fact we have-that you are a newer soaper. So we err on the side of caution and give you the best advice we can based on what we know.
I can tell you that I don't know of anyone here that is truly rude or intends to chase off new soapers. I myself was called to task for a statement I made which offended others. I didn't blame anyone or get defensive, I simply didn't realize that what I wrote did not reflect what I had meant. When I had explained and apologized for my statement I believe people understood my intention.
Perception is everything.
Expressing concerns about a lack of knowledge about soap when you plan to teach a soap making demonstration is not rude - its a very valid concern.
Insisting that people give you recipes and recipe ideas and not voice any opinions in the thread IS actually pretty rude IMHO.
Insisting that people give you recipes and recipe ideas and not voice any opinions in the thread IS actually pretty rude IMHO.
I guess I think it is a wise idea to take time, lurk a while, read posts, and tread gently when you post on a new board. I have belonged to a number of them, focused on different stuff/subject matter. The tone/approach/feel/personality of all of them is so different. What works on one does not work on another.
If your first post is something where *you* are asking long-time posters for something - and you have not otherwise let people know who you are/added value, and then take offense at something that is said, you should consider stepping back, thinking about the content, figure out if the board is nonetheless somewhere you want to stay, and maybe disregard your first instinct and not be testy.
The OP said that she is a new soaper. This board is really invaluable to those of us who are starting out, it has been to me and - at six months out - still is, almost every day. I think it probably always will be.
If your first post is something where *you* are asking long-time posters for something - and you have not otherwise let people know who you are/added value, and then take offense at something that is said, you should consider stepping back, thinking about the content, figure out if the board is nonetheless somewhere you want to stay, and maybe disregard your first instinct and not be testy.
The OP said that she is a new soaper. This board is really invaluable to those of us who are starting out, it has been to me and - at six months out - still is, almost every day. I think it probably always will be.
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I think some of us have had experience with Dish Forum flaming and let me say thank goodness that type of activity is not tolerated here. We try to be a newby friendly forum also.
tatumhills
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Thank you to those who took the time to explain. As I have said earlier I had NO IDEA that people would be protective of their recipes. On all the other online forum I am a member of people share their knowledge freely so I had no idea my request would be so shocking to you all.
What got me annoyed in the above posts is how quickly negative assumptions were made about me and how quickly the conversation moved away from actual soap making and became more about what a farm ingredient was and why I should use lard. Sure, if I had introduced myself, I could have stopped some of these negative assumptions, but I was quite sad to find that people just thought I was in it for a quick buck and would scare people away from handmade soap due to my lack of knowledge. If they feared that, they could have just asked me a few questions and they would have got an answer.
So here are a few facts:
First of all, the long overdue introduction, apologies for not posting this sooner. I live near Canberra, Australia with my partner and 5 yr old daughter, I have a day job as a science communicator but my passion is my educational farm where city families can visit to learn about animals in a fun and relaxed way. My focus in on teaching people how to interact with animals safely and respectfully. About 1 year ago a fulfilled a life-long dream of getting a dairy animal that could provide cruelty-free dairy to my family. We bought our goat Tag and started sharing the milk with her baby until she weaned him. He is still a valued pet on our farm. With all the milk I started making cheese and also decided to start making soap. I did quite a lot of research and watched many videos to prepare myself for soaping. This included lye safety and calculators and curing times and oil choices, so I have a basic understanding of these topics. I have been soaping for nearly a year and I have been using my own products as well as sharing them with families and friends, seeking their feedback to make sure they were of high quality. Everybody loves my soap. Recently, I was approached by a community centre who found out about my soap and they asked me if I could run this demo as they had been searching high and low for someone without success. I agreed, not for the $$ which is minuscule anyway, but because I like what this centre does and wanted to support them.
For those who thought I agreed without having a recipe, again wrong assumption, I do have a few that would work well, but since I have a few months, before the workshop, I thought I could come up with some better ideas. Nobody on here thought that the fact that I was here asking questions was a good thing, showing that I wanted to be as prepared as possible for the workshop to make sure people left happy.
If you are so worried about people turning others off handmade soap, then providing an environment where people feel comfortable to ask questions so that they don’t make big mistakes is essential, I think. The way I was received here, did the opposite for me. Now I am not sure I want to ask anything else for fear of being misunderstood, so how was all this helpful to me and to what you are trying to achieve?
What got me annoyed in the above posts is how quickly negative assumptions were made about me and how quickly the conversation moved away from actual soap making and became more about what a farm ingredient was and why I should use lard. Sure, if I had introduced myself, I could have stopped some of these negative assumptions, but I was quite sad to find that people just thought I was in it for a quick buck and would scare people away from handmade soap due to my lack of knowledge. If they feared that, they could have just asked me a few questions and they would have got an answer.
So here are a few facts:
First of all, the long overdue introduction, apologies for not posting this sooner. I live near Canberra, Australia with my partner and 5 yr old daughter, I have a day job as a science communicator but my passion is my educational farm where city families can visit to learn about animals in a fun and relaxed way. My focus in on teaching people how to interact with animals safely and respectfully. About 1 year ago a fulfilled a life-long dream of getting a dairy animal that could provide cruelty-free dairy to my family. We bought our goat Tag and started sharing the milk with her baby until she weaned him. He is still a valued pet on our farm. With all the milk I started making cheese and also decided to start making soap. I did quite a lot of research and watched many videos to prepare myself for soaping. This included lye safety and calculators and curing times and oil choices, so I have a basic understanding of these topics. I have been soaping for nearly a year and I have been using my own products as well as sharing them with families and friends, seeking their feedback to make sure they were of high quality. Everybody loves my soap. Recently, I was approached by a community centre who found out about my soap and they asked me if I could run this demo as they had been searching high and low for someone without success. I agreed, not for the $$ which is minuscule anyway, but because I like what this centre does and wanted to support them.
For those who thought I agreed without having a recipe, again wrong assumption, I do have a few that would work well, but since I have a few months, before the workshop, I thought I could come up with some better ideas. Nobody on here thought that the fact that I was here asking questions was a good thing, showing that I wanted to be as prepared as possible for the workshop to make sure people left happy.
If you are so worried about people turning others off handmade soap, then providing an environment where people feel comfortable to ask questions so that they don’t make big mistakes is essential, I think. The way I was received here, did the opposite for me. Now I am not sure I want to ask anything else for fear of being misunderstood, so how was all this helpful to me and to what you are trying to achieve?
In your original post you stated you had only made a few batches. Now you say you have been soaping for a year. You are certainly free to do as you choose. You have received a lot of suggestions. Now, you need to play with some recipes until you find something you are happy with. I certainly couldn't have given a demonstration so early in my soaping adventure. Especially when you think you can provide enough information in one demonstration for anyone to just go home and make soap. Good luck to you and I hope you find a recipe or recipes that work for you. I too belo g to several forums and have never found one as helpful as here.
soapmage
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Like someone posted earlier, perception is everything. To be quite honest, you're OP made it sound like you were REALLY new to soap making which raised alarms when you mentioned doing a demo. So, yes, an introduction would have been really good so we know how much experience you actually have and that you indeed have your own recipes that you use and test yourself. I'm as friendly as they come and try to get more info before "casting judgement" and opening my big mouth. You just have to realize that so many of us soapmakers have been burned by new people coming into groups, never introducing themselves, and just cutting right to the chase on asking for recipes... we then give freely of our hard work only to find said person selling their soaps online or at markets without any experience, or able to answer customer questions, not even understanding the properties of the oils, or making inferior and sometimes lye heavy soap. Not to mention having our recipes copied exactly with no credit given, or even our soap photos stolen and used as their own. So that is why we may come off as guarded. It's no offense to you at all. Yes it's crappy, but it DOES happen, and more often than you think.
Now for your recipe query... keep it simple for demo purposes, like keeping to a simple 3-4 oil recipe that is easily obtainable like olive, coconut, Crisco (either all soy or the palm/soy combo), sunflower, etc... and don't forget canola.
Here's a simple "grocery store" recipe I found and experimented with when I first started:
olive 50%
coconut 26.7%
castor 8.3%
sunflower 15%
superfat 6% (lye 117 gr) and water 30%
The lather is good on fluffy and stable lather, good moisturizing even with the amount of coconut, but feel free to tweak the numbers in a lye calc to suit better what you'd like.
Now for your recipe query... keep it simple for demo purposes, like keeping to a simple 3-4 oil recipe that is easily obtainable like olive, coconut, Crisco (either all soy or the palm/soy combo), sunflower, etc... and don't forget canola.
Here's a simple "grocery store" recipe I found and experimented with when I first started:
olive 50%
coconut 26.7%
castor 8.3%
sunflower 15%
superfat 6% (lye 117 gr) and water 30%
The lather is good on fluffy and stable lather, good moisturizing even with the amount of coconut, but feel free to tweak the numbers in a lye calc to suit better what you'd like.
tatumhills
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Thank you. Well here we have proven once again that it is all about perception. After a year I still consider myself a beginner as I understand there is still a lot I can learn but to you a beginner seems to mean one who's only made 1 or 2 batches. Oh well, glad we've clarified that. I guess I also made an assumption at the beginning and it was that people would figured I had SOME understanding of soap making if I was doing a demo. Guess I was wrong too.
Sorry to hear about the stolen recipes. I see how you would all get guarded but still sad that things are like that
Thanks for the recipe above. It is similar to one I have so I will test it out.
Sorry to hear about the stolen recipes. I see how you would all get guarded but still sad that things are like that
Thanks for the recipe above. It is similar to one I have so I will test it out.
To the OP, just wanted to point out that no one actually said you HAVE to use lard. It was just suggested as an option as you mentioned your preference for farm ingredients. How is anyone to know that you are a vegetarian or your attendees are going to be vegetarians. Have been here on the forum close to three months, I am a vegan, well almost. And no one said I have to use lard/ tallow. We had some great discussions on the choices we make and the thought processes behind those decisions. This is a very helpful forum, very accommodating to newbies. It would indeed be your loss if you decide to leave.
LOL! I've been soaping for over 15 years and I'm still a beginner. There are always pioneers out there developing new recipes and new designs. I always come here and to some of the other forums when I have a question...generally someone knows.
Have you used SoapCalc yet? That's a great resource for building recipes.
dillsandwitch
Well-Known Member
Oh god help me. In this case I think even 20 years down the track I will still consider myself as a beginner. Especially with some of the silly questions I ask. Like my latest one of cling wrap in the oven. Silly me didn't realise that it would be at such a low temp that I wouldn't have to worry about it melting but of course I didn't think of that now did I? hahahaha
Dahila
Well-Known Member
In my city someone is teaching class and telling people to use vinegar on splashed lye, splashed on skin. I started to talk to the person, being pumped with the soaping knowledge here and I was terrified. She knows **** about soaping but she is selling and teaching..
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