Does anybody here promote CP soap as shampoo?

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You are misreading your readings. They added water to shaved soap and then added herbs that detoxify the hair. Thus diluting the soap and then adding the other agents, thus rendering it highly diluted soap and not straight soap. They knew it was bad even way back then.

Herbs don't survive saponificaton.
 
All the ingredients are FDA approved.

1000 units have been sold outside of New Zealand.

1000 units at 49$ per unit.

Ok, where are you selling, which countries?

With all due respect to US soapers, the FDA isn't the only approval body and unless you are getting around the laws, at some point you will have to provide a full list of ingredients to consumers.

I dont understand the point of this thread. You don't like CP sold or used as shampoo but people do and whether any of us like it, that's up to them. Not me or you.

You may have an amazing new product but you are being so cagey you are getting people's backs up - no one can comment or critique or even just give their pov cos you aren't saying anything other than everyone else is wrong. What were you hoping to get from starting this thread? Marketing information, sales or was it a genuine attempt to understand other soapers? Just trying to cut through the nonsense and understand where you are coming from tbh.
 
You are misreading your readings. They added water to shaved soap and then added herbs that detoxify the hair. Thus diluting the soap and then adding the other agents, thus rendering it highly diluted soap and not straight soap. They knew it was bad even way back then.

Herbs don't survive saponificaton.
If you were really interested in educating then you'd be discussing what it is that makes shampoo bars bad for hair--its the pH vs the pH of what you consider real shampoo. You say, "They knew it was bad even way back then." Many ways of trying to cleanse hair were drying and I suspect that's why there were new ideas and other various things tried throughout the history of shampoo. It was not until the invent of detergents (during WWI) that a real solution for cleansing hair was concocted--solution in that there was now something that could lather and clean in a low pH environment, something soap/shampoo bars will never be able to do because saponification breaks in that low of a pH setting.

I never wash my hair with straight soap/shampoo bars. How comical that you should think that anyone can wash hair with straight shampoo bars. The lather that one works up in adding water to the bar and rubbing it in their hands to produce the lather is DILUTED shampoo from the solid bar. Handmade soap/shampoo bars have a higher pH than commercial soaps and commercial shampoo only because these products contain detergents that are able to lather in a low pH environment. When a pH higher than hair and scalp is used to cleans the hair, it naturally will raise the hair's pH and raise the protective cuticle layers. This, however, can be easily remedied. It takes only moments for me to wash with my diluted shampoo lather and then I rinse, use my low pH conditioner, rinse with warm water and then follow up with pouring cold water slowly over my head. All is good and approved by my cosmetologist. Having hair permed, chemically straightened, and colored exposes hair to a much higher pH than shampoo bar lather and those chemicals stay on much longer shampoo lather so I expect to see you in the newspapers all over the world bashing hair salons for offering these damaging treatments and trying to get them to stop.

My sister, who mentioned to me she was using shampoo bars, didn't use anything to lower her pH and cuticles afterwards. She said she loved the body her hair now had after it dried. I told her it wasn't body at all and it was setting her hair up for cuticle breakage which leads to hair fiber drying out and later hair-splitting and breaking, also knots and tangles due to the static electricity. After explaining that her layers of cubicles were raised and preventing each hair strand from laying flat against the hairs next to them and the vulnerability her hair was in, she went back to using conditioner.

I once thought maybe you were honest in seeing if anyone used CP (or HP) Shampoo with good results; now I think:
"mischief-maker. noun. someone who enjoys causing trouble or disagreement." I think I'll go back to making shampoo bars & housework and not try to educate those who want to be divisive. You know you aren't going to convince anyone here that they are involved in false advertising or being misleading or to call their product 'hair' soap?? You continue to do as you please (not making and/or selling shampoo bars) and be dissatisfied with soap making--that it now has a bad name according to you--and those who make and sell solid shampoo will continue to do it with history on their side as for what they are calling it--shampoo.
 
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Pre-Columbian North America

· Certain Native American tribes used extracts from North American plants as hair shampoo

Pre-Columbian South America

· Before quinoa can be eaten the saponin must be washed out from the grain prior to cooking. Pre-Columbian Andean civilizations used this soapy by-product as a shampoo.

Just a fun little fyi... No past tense is needed on this, and one need not reference history when it comes to Native Americans and washing hair with botanicals. We're still here, and we still do. :D Not all the time, unfortunately, and not all of us... Too many of my relatives have been so thoroughly colonized that they've lost the knowledge of their Ancestors. :( But also, homemade plant-based washes take a lot of time and effort to make, while most of us are busting our butts just trying to make ends meet. So in the US, bottled shampoo is typically for regular use and traditional washes are for treats, special occasions, and sometimes for traditional spiritual rites.

Now, I can't personally speak to what happens in South America, but considering how many areas don't have regular, reliable shipments of supplies, and how much plant life abounds in less developed areas, I think it's safe to say there are many indigenous people who still use traditional ways for many, many things.

And frankly, I struggle to find commercial shampoo & conditioner that can do all my hair needs. If I had access to yucca plants, I would absolutely try traditional yucca root washes and see if it worked better. My hair is just very different from European hair, and I'm only half Native.
 
Just a fun little fyi... No past tense is needed on this, and one need not reference history when it comes to Native Americans and washing hair with botanicals. We're still here, and we still do. :D Not all the time, unfortunately, and not all of us... Too many of my relatives have been so thoroughly colonized that they've lost the knowledge of their Ancestors. :( But also, homemade plant-based washes take a lot of time and effort to make, while most of us are busting our butts just trying to make ends meet. So in the US, bottled shampoo is typically for regular use and traditional washes are for treats, special occasions, and sometimes for traditional spiritual rites.

Now, I can't personally speak to what happens in South America, but considering how many areas don't have regular, reliable shipments of supplies, and how much plant life abounds in less developed areas, I think it's safe to say there are many indigenous people who still use traditional ways for many, many things.

And frankly, I struggle to find commercial shampoo & conditioner that can do all my hair needs. If I had access to yucca plants, I would absolutely try traditional yucca root washes and see if it worked better. My hair is just very different from European hair, and I'm only half Native.

LOL, I was keeping the wiki info intact and just copied/pasted all of it and then edited out 'a lot' of words to just keep words that were 'to the points' I was making. My husband is Native American (Cherokee). Out here in the country, there are many communities with those who have married within the Cherokee tribe or another tribe so driving through them you see very strong ethnicity. Some of whom we know do keep many cultural traditions. Tradition is often lost and thereby goes roots that tie; kind of sad. My DH remembers his grandma and great-grandma making soap--back then it was harsh though, and understandably so. No inside water so bathing took place outdoors in an oval-shaped metal or aluminum tub of sorts after drawing water from the well. My poor hubby was the youngest so he was last to bathe in a line of 10 people. Winter bathing he said was cold! Lol, maybe all the bodies in the water before him, the body being 98ish F, warmed the water for him. Good to know that some/many where you live have held onto traditional washes/shampoo; I can only imagine the time it takes to prepare and make. Lost arts of cultures is a sad thing. Here where we live, the lost arts of making pottery, jewelry, weaving baskets, making arrowheads and the like are taught to children by those older folk who never stopped making them. Though I'm not Cherokee, it pleases me to see an effort to keep these things alive.
 
People used soap for washing hair before shampoos but they also used rinses like tea as conditioners. Tea is acidic.
I have long hair and also know many others that wash it with natural soap with better results than using synthetic shampoos. We have all experienced improved skin, without the dermatitis type itching. My daughter can sit on her hair and only uses soap for washing it - and has done for many years.
I gave up shampoos 8 years ago and my hair is doing well and I have no dandruff problems that I had using shampoos.
Consensus amongst my friends has it that a milk soap is the best. I now do milk powder in colloidal copper citrate for the water content. I make my own colloidal copper citrate. It has many benefits and is easily made.
It may be better to discount the water and use a concentrated colloidal copper citrate at trace.
Additives I use are :
A blend of essential oils for the antifungal properties (including Rosemary EO)
Calendula oil for the super fat. I make my own with olive oil and calendula's I grow. It has many benefits.

The tangly, straw effect and then going greasy quickly, is what happens when the acid was too dilute. From my observations this is individual. I use half strength vinegar and then rinse that mostly off. Sometimes I use citric acid dissolved in water.
You all know the pH of skin and soap. Vinegar is about 2pH and diluted 50% about 4-5pH.

So many people have chronic health problems and many are desperate to find solutions. They persist till they get things to work and get away from using synthetic products with"who knows what" in them (not everything has to be labeled).

Because of my experience and what I have seen, I recommend trying soap bars for washing hair but each to their own.
 
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People used soap for washing hair before shampoos but they also used rinses like tea as conditioners. Tea is acidic......"
Absolutely. I too tried to make that point (shredded soap in boiling water bla, bla, bla) to no avail. The response was, "they knew it was bad even way back then." Way back then they had not much else to use; detergents had not yet been invented. There were many things (as the history of shampoo demonstrates) used throughout time to cleans hair (including ash mixed with water then rubbed into hair), but all were found damaging; therefore, things were used to counter the pH issue--the use of citrus juice after cleansing and oiling the hair. This question was not asked in search of the true worth of CP or HP soap as shampoo, but instead to put an end to soap makers (in this forum) marketing 'soap' as shampoo. It was demanded that these products be called 'hair soap.' Funny that those of old didn't call it 'hair soap,' it was called shampoo.

"....I have long hair and also know many others that wash it with natural soap with better results than using synthetic shampoos. ... My daughter can sit on her hair and only uses soap for washing it - and has done for many years. I gave up shampoos 8 years ago and my hair is doing well and I have no dandruff problems that I had using shampoos....."
I also have sat upon my hair and jerked my head when I moved because I didn't know I was sitting on it. I keep it up when driving to prevent this. While I've used my shampoo bars for only 2-3 years (can't remember which) I too saw improvement. I did months of research on hair, like the chemical make-up and the bonds within hair, its unique pH (3.67), etc. before deciding to make and use 'soap' on my hair.

"...The tangly, straw effect...."

Static creates hair to tangle; that's why certain materials for combs are best for men with beards but the same really goes for women's hair. Shampoo bars will indeed create static because the pH is too high (unless lowered by way of ACV/water rinse, other low pH rinses, or a low pH conditioner). It is my belief that many don't realize, my sister for instance, that after using a shampoo bar the something needs to be done to lower the pH. My sister mistakenly thought her hair had more volume and body after switching from 'modern-day shampoo' to a shampoo bar. She told me she liked it so much that she quit using conditioner completely. Once I explained to her that her cuticle layers were raised and not permitting the hair strands to lay one upon the other, and raised will promote moisture-loss over time and then damage to the inner fibers, and a gentle suggestion that she return to using conditioner, she did. Had she not mentioned that to me and had she continued keeping her hair's normal ph of 3.67 raised to a higher 8.5-9 pH she would eventually have had dry, brittle hair and from there, worse damage: splitting and breakage. It's important for anyone using soap/shampoo bars to lower the pH of their hair after washing because hair is not like skin (5.5 pH). Skin will rebound and balance itself back out, hair cannot; cuticles will not lower themselves.

"....They persist till they get things to work and get away from using synthetic products with"who knows what" in them..."
My whole purpose in making and using shampoo bars was to get away from synthetic detergents. Using "real" soap had quite literally cured my fingers from drying out so severely that the skin would break open and bleed. From there the skin around the open cracks would dry and further splitting would occur--painful and unsightly. This happens usually right before we enter autumn and lasts until after spring; it can occur during spring/summer but just isn't an every-day thing. I've been like this all throughout life, until age 54 of when I began to make soap. Being that I must be predisposed to severe drying by detergents, I wanted something free of detergents for my hair. I understand the dangers of not lowering my hair's pH and that this will eventually cause real damage.

I couldn't believe a person joined a soap forum with the intent to make others quite marketing soap as shampoo. Or, as he/she told others, call it 'hair soap.' And to insinuate that they are engaging in false advertising--history called it shampoo so how is that false advertising?
 
I have had the same experience as you Kiti. We have been making soap for 6 years and worked on reformulating our cold process soap recipe to work on my long hair as a shampoo bar two years ago. I do use a vinegar/chamomile & sage tea rinse every 5-7 washes or so (about once a month) and find that my hair has a lovely texture, has more natural body and nice shine, and only gets greasy after 3 or 4 days of not washing. When I used chemical shampoos I used to have to wash my hair daily to prevent it from getting greasy.
Part of my shift to cold-processed shampoo bars was part of a larger shift to manage my autoimmune condition. I was able to put my Graves’ disease into remission within 3 months of diagnosis by making a lot of lifestyle changes to eliminate chemicals and other toxins from my life - including stopping colouring my hair and eliminating chemicals from my shampoo, soaps and skincare. For me, the elimination of chemicals is as important as the texture and cleanliness of my hair when it comes to choosing my hair care routine. One of the side effects of graves disease is hair loss and I had experimented with using a coconut milk shampoo as that was recommended for encouraging regrowth. Then we reformulated our super-fatted soap to use coconut oil and cocoa butter as the base oils. I have been very pleased with the results, and my hair is nice and thick.
I believe that chemical and waste reduction are what are driving demand for shampoo bars and personally feel that cold process soaps can have a useful and meaningful place in this solution to this evolving and quite positive demand.
 
I have had the same experience as you Kiti. We have been making soap for 6 years and worked on reformulating our cold process soap recipe to work on my long hair as a shampoo bar two years ago. I do use a vinegar/chamomile & sage tea rinse every 5-7 washes or so (about once a month) and find that my hair has a lovely texture, has more natural body and nice shine, and only gets greasy after 3 or 4 days of not washing. When I used chemical shampoos I used to have to wash my hair daily to prevent it from getting greasy.
Part of my shift to cold-processed shampoo bars was part of a larger shift to manage my autoimmune condition. I was able to put my Graves’ disease into remission within 3 months of diagnosis by making a lot of lifestyle changes to eliminate chemicals and other toxins from my life - including stopping colouring my hair and eliminating chemicals from my shampoo, soaps and skincare. For me, the elimination of chemicals is as important as the texture and cleanliness of my hair when it comes to choosing my hair care routine. One of the side effects of graves disease is hair loss and I had experimented with using a coconut milk shampoo as that was recommended for encouraging regrowth. Then we reformulated our super-fatted soap to use coconut oil and cocoa butter as the base oils. I have been very pleased with the results, and my hair is nice and thick.
I believe that chemical and waste reduction are what are driving demand for shampoo bars and personally feel that cold process soaps can have a useful and meaningful place in this solution to this evolving and quite positive demand.

In our home we had to get rid of anything with chemicals in it to help manage my Autistic Granddaughter. No dyes or additives in food, soap not detergent in the washer, vinegar as a fabric softener and soap scum preventer. The before/after in her was very noticeable. It helps that doctors are seeing what does/does not work for these individuals.

I have found that the dandruff and nasty excess oil is not a problem with my soap/conditioner bars. I condition the ends and then pile my hair up onto my head to get the roots a diluted conditioner. I can put the soap where it is most needed so I am not using as much in a go as the liquid stuff. I think more of the commercial stuff got on the floor of my shower than my head. My hair is at sit on length, and I used to get it cut close to my scalp for wig donations. They loved getting mine because of how healthy it is.

Ethnic hair is a wild thing. Asian hair is straight and course, European hair is finer, and has curl, African hair is tight curls with little oil from the scalp to ends. Native hair is very close to Asian hair, a bit finer in the hair shaft. Different hair, different needs. There is a place for both synthetic and natural soaps.
 
I think that what we forget is that before the 1930's, all people had to wash their hair with was soap made with lye, unless you lived in a culture that used saponin-rich plant materials like soapnuts, soapwort or yucca. My grandmother taught me that after washing your hair you used final a rinse of water and vinegar or lemon juice...she didnt know about PH, but that was what she had been taught to do and she passed it on, because in her day they used soap. They must have had ways to make it work, because women didn't just discover beautiful hair post-WWII.
 
I have a whole house water softener unit, so my water is very pure. I have used limpness paper on it and it shows no visible chemical impurities. The soap is my own recipe, OO, CO, and AO, with tea tree and vit. E added in after trace. I think maybe having good water is the key for a shampoo bar. I would have to go back in my posts to a small FB group to get the actual date I started using my soap. My daughter has my very thick (younger self) hair as well. She has her hair layered so she can pull it into a pony tail without breaking the hair bands.

I'm glad I'm not the only one and I've not really wanted to state that I make and use them:D because I understand why others caution against the use of them. Over the years and many soap gifts, my daughter in law is a good person to go to for hair care. I picked her brain just a few months ago and asked her some very pointed questions. Her answers were spot on with what I had concluded with all the research I've done before making them and continue to read and research. While I make and use them, that doesn't mean others (friends and family) will have good success with them. I had been holding my tongue regarding the making and useage of them......now cat's out of the bag.
:lol:

I was blasted by a few members here when I first joined. I first test my soaps on my family, they have agreed to let me know how a recipe works out. Then I have a test group who will tell me how the soap works out for them. Only then will I sell/offer my soaps to the public. I started out just making my shampoo bars for my own use. The commercial stuff left me all greasy and dandruffy. 1 use of the shampoo bar got rid of the dandruff, and the greasy feel after washing was gone. Yes, I did have to wash my hair every day for about 2 weeks before my scalp got the message that it didn't need to over supply oils. I can go as long as 4 days between washing in winter.

I make a beard soap that is currently being tested by 16 men at my seasonal work. 3 are so impressed they wanted a full bar. I think shampoo bars, and the soaps we make here, are a finer quality than my grandmother's lard and lye soap.

My shampoo bar recipe is as follows: 15 oz Avocado oil, 15 oz Coconut oil, 18 oz Olive oil. My lye is 6.7 oz dissolved in 14 oz tap water with sea salt added in prior. (I set my water to age after I have added the Sea salt. 1 T to a gallon of water) I mix the oils, add in the lye solution when both are around 135 degrees. I blend to thin trace add in 20 drops of Vit. E oil and 10 drops of Tea Tree oil. mix well, and you can put in the scent of your choice. I add just enough to smell it, but not so much as to knock you over. Pour into molds and let it all get to know itself. I pop them out at approx. 24 hours and set them to age for 4 weeks.

The bar gives a big luscious, tons of creamy lather, so I usually do 4 swipes on my head and then lather up. It yields approx 48 ozs of shampoo, 12 bares worth.
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So kind of you to provide such precious information. Where I am, ad-vocado (☺️) oil is not available so easily so can you suggest another?? Tallow maybe)🤞. I ALWAYS use tap water. 🤷.Thank you for your story.
 
I'm so sorry to hear that! 😢 That happened to me too when I first joined in 2017. The forum was not the friendly place it is today. I was pilloried unmercifully up oneside and down the other. I almost quit but a compassionate member reached out to me privately and encouraged me to stay, saying, "It will get better in a few months".

I stayed but watched from behind the scenes as I witnessed one experienced soapmaker after another receive the same treatment. After trying, politely, to defend themselves, they quietly departed, never to be seen again. Sad. As a result, only Newbies stayed on, which now comprises the largest % of the active participants.

I thought we had gotten past that. I guess not. 😟
Zany, you might want to read a few of Holi's posts before apologizing to them...it's really hard to discern who started what or why the conversation even went where it did...but from my POV gentle education was met with a very combative attitude. Afterwards, there was a little back and forth where the tone was somewhat negative back...but they're not the victim they're making themselves out to be, especially after bringing up a hot-button issue like HP and cure.
 
Zany, you might want to read a few of Holi's posts before apologizing to them
:thumbs: ;) Thank you, Megan.
Haha. I just started to read this excellent thread (discussing both sides of the issue in a non-confrontational manner so far) from the beginning. Old person here. I forgot that I had already stated what you quoted just now way back in Post #26. No sense in repeating myself. I've edited my post #97 to reflect that. :D
 

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