Does anybody here promote CP soap as shampoo?

Discussion in 'Lye-Based Soap Forum' started by Auxotroph, Oct 28, 2019.

Help Support Soapmaking Forum by donating:

  1. Nov 2, 2019 #81

    Auxotroph

    Auxotroph

    Auxotroph

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2019
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    New Zealand
    You are misreading your readings. They added water to shaved soap and then added herbs that detoxify the hair. Thus diluting the soap and then adding the other agents, thus rendering it highly diluted soap and not straight soap. They knew it was bad even way back then.

    Herbs don't survive saponificaton.
     
  2. Nov 2, 2019 #82

    LilyJo

    LilyJo

    LilyJo

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2016
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    314
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    Ok, where are you selling, which countries?

    With all due respect to US soapers, the FDA isn't the only approval body and unless you are getting around the laws, at some point you will have to provide a full list of ingredients to consumers.

    I dont understand the point of this thread. You don't like CP sold or used as shampoo but people do and whether any of us like it, that's up to them. Not me or you.

    You may have an amazing new product but you are being so cagey you are getting people's backs up - no one can comment or critique or even just give their pov cos you aren't saying anything other than everyone else is wrong. What were you hoping to get from starting this thread? Marketing information, sales or was it a genuine attempt to understand other soapers? Just trying to cut through the nonsense and understand where you are coming from tbh.
     
    Millie and Michele50 like this.
  3. Nov 2, 2019 #83

    Michele50

    Michele50

    Michele50

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2019
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    399
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    If you were really interested in educating then you'd be discussing what it is that makes shampoo bars bad for hair--its the pH vs the pH of what you consider real shampoo. You say, "They knew it was bad even way back then." Many ways of trying to cleanse hair were drying and I suspect that's why there were new ideas and other various things tried throughout the history of shampoo. It was not until the invent of detergents (during WWI) that a real solution for cleansing hair was concocted--solution in that there was now something that could lather and clean in a low pH environment, something soap/shampoo bars will never be able to do because saponification breaks in that low of a pH setting.

    I never wash my hair with straight soap/shampoo bars. How comical that you should think that anyone can wash hair with straight shampoo bars. The lather that one works up in adding water to the bar and rubbing it in their hands to produce the lather is DILUTED shampoo from the solid bar. Handmade soap/shampoo bars have a higher pH than commercial soaps and commercial shampoo only because these products contain detergents that are able to lather in a low pH environment. When a pH higher than hair and scalp is used to cleans the hair, it naturally will raise the hair's pH and raise the protective cuticle layers. This, however, can be easily remedied. It takes only moments for me to wash with my diluted shampoo lather and then I rinse, use my low pH conditioner, rinse with warm water and then follow up with pouring cold water slowly over my head. All is good and approved by my cosmetologist. Having hair permed, chemically straightened, and colored exposes hair to a much higher pH than shampoo bar lather and those chemicals stay on much longer shampoo lather so I expect to see you in the newspapers all over the world bashing hair salons for offering these damaging treatments and trying to get them to stop.

    My sister, who mentioned to me she was using shampoo bars, didn't use anything to lower her pH and cuticles afterwards. She said she loved the body her hair now had after it dried. I told her it wasn't body at all and it was setting her hair up for cuticle breakage which leads to hair fiber drying out and later hair-splitting and breaking, also knots and tangles due to the static electricity. After explaining that her layers of cubicles were raised and preventing each hair strand from laying flat against the hairs next to them and the vulnerability her hair was in, she went back to using conditioner.

    I once thought maybe you were honest in seeing if anyone used CP (or HP) Shampoo with good results; now I think:
    "mischief-maker. noun. someone who enjoys causing trouble or disagreement." I think I'll go back to making shampoo bars & housework and not try to educate those who want to be divisive. You know you aren't going to convince anyone here that they are involved in false advertising or being misleading or to call their product 'hair' soap?? You continue to do as you please (not making and/or selling shampoo bars) and be dissatisfied with soap making--that it now has a bad name according to you--and those who make and sell solid shampoo will continue to do it with history on their side as for what they are calling it--shampoo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
    Primrose likes this.
  4. Nov 2, 2019 #84

    Mistrael

    Mistrael

    Mistrael

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    62
    Location:
    Detroit
    Just a fun little fyi... No past tense is needed on this, and one need not reference history when it comes to Native Americans and washing hair with botanicals. We're still here, and we still do. :D Not all the time, unfortunately, and not all of us... Too many of my relatives have been so thoroughly colonized that they've lost the knowledge of their Ancestors. :( But also, homemade plant-based washes take a lot of time and effort to make, while most of us are busting our butts just trying to make ends meet. So in the US, bottled shampoo is typically for regular use and traditional washes are for treats, special occasions, and sometimes for traditional spiritual rites.

    Now, I can't personally speak to what happens in South America, but considering how many areas don't have regular, reliable shipments of supplies, and how much plant life abounds in less developed areas, I think it's safe to say there are many indigenous people who still use traditional ways for many, many things.

    And frankly, I struggle to find commercial shampoo & conditioner that can do all my hair needs. If I had access to yucca plants, I would absolutely try traditional yucca root washes and see if it worked better. My hair is just very different from European hair, and I'm only half Native.
     
  5. Nov 2, 2019 #85

    Michele50

    Michele50

    Michele50

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2019
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    399
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    LOL, I was keeping the wiki info intact and just copied/pasted all of it and then edited out 'a lot' of words to just keep words that were 'to the points' I was making. My husband is Native American (Cherokee). Out here in the country, there are many communities with those who have married within the Cherokee tribe or another tribe so driving through them you see very strong ethnicity. Some of whom we know do keep many cultural traditions. Tradition is often lost and thereby goes roots that tie; kind of sad. My DH remembers his grandma and great-grandma making soap--back then it was harsh though, and understandably so. No inside water so bathing took place outdoors in an oval-shaped metal or aluminum tub of sorts after drawing water from the well. My poor hubby was the youngest so he was last to bathe in a line of 10 people. Winter bathing he said was cold! Lol, maybe all the bodies in the water before him, the body being 98ish F, warmed the water for him. Good to know that some/many where you live have held onto traditional washes/shampoo; I can only imagine the time it takes to prepare and make. Lost arts of cultures is a sad thing. Here where we live, the lost arts of making pottery, jewelry, weaving baskets, making arrowheads and the like are taught to children by those older folk who never stopped making them. Though I'm not Cherokee, it pleases me to see an effort to keep these things alive.
     
  6. Nov 4, 2019 #86

    Deb Walker

    Deb Walker

    Deb Walker

    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Australia
    People used soap for washing hair before shampoos but they also used rinses like tea as conditioners. Tea is acidic.
    I have long hair and also know many others that wash it with natural soap with better results than using synthetic shampoos. We have all experienced improved skin, without the dermatitis type itching. My daughter can sit on her hair and only uses soap for washing it - and has done for many years.
    I gave up shampoos 8 years ago and my hair is doing well and I have no dandruff problems that I had using shampoos.
    Consensus amongst my friends has it that a milk soap is the best. I now do milk powder in colloidal copper citrate for the water content. I make my own colloidal copper citrate. It has many benefits and is easily made.
    It may be better to discount the water and use a concentrated colloidal copper citrate at trace.
    Additives I use are :
    A blend of essential oils for the antifungal properties (including Rosemary EO)
    Calendula oil for the super fat. I make my own with olive oil and calendula's I grow. It has many benefits.

    The tangly, straw effect and then going greasy quickly, is what happens when the acid was too dilute. From my observations this is individual. I use half strength vinegar and then rinse that mostly off. Sometimes I use citric acid dissolved in water.
    You all know the pH of skin and soap. Vinegar is about 2pH and diluted 50% about 4-5pH.

    So many people have chronic health problems and many are desperate to find solutions. They persist till they get things to work and get away from using synthetic products with"who knows what" in them (not everything has to be labeled).

    Because of my experience and what I have seen, I recommend trying soap bars for washing hair but each to their own.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2019
    Zany_in_CO and Michele50 like this.
  7. Nov 4, 2019 #87

    Michele50

    Michele50

    Michele50

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2019
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    399
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Absolutely. I too tried to make that point (shredded soap in boiling water bla, bla, bla) to no avail. The response was, "they knew it was bad even way back then." Way back then they had not much else to use; detergents had not yet been invented. There were many things (as the history of shampoo demonstrates) used throughout time to cleans hair (including ash mixed with water then rubbed into hair), but all were found damaging; therefore, things were used to counter the pH issue--the use of citrus juice after cleansing and oiling the hair. This question was not asked in search of the true worth of CP or HP soap as shampoo, but instead to put an end to soap makers (in this forum) marketing 'soap' as shampoo. It was demanded that these products be called 'hair soap.' Funny that those of old didn't call it 'hair soap,' it was called shampoo.

    I also have sat upon my hair and jerked my head when I moved because I didn't know I was sitting on it. I keep it up when driving to prevent this. While I've used my shampoo bars for only 2-3 years (can't remember which) I too saw improvement. I did months of research on hair, like the chemical make-up and the bonds within hair, its unique pH (3.67), etc. before deciding to make and use 'soap' on my hair.

    Static creates hair to tangle; that's why certain materials for combs are best for men with beards but the same really goes for women's hair. Shampoo bars will indeed create static because the pH is too high (unless lowered by way of ACV/water rinse, other low pH rinses, or a low pH conditioner). It is my belief that many don't realize, my sister for instance, that after using a shampoo bar the something needs to be done to lower the pH. My sister mistakenly thought her hair had more volume and body after switching from 'modern-day shampoo' to a shampoo bar. She told me she liked it so much that she quit using conditioner completely. Once I explained to her that her cuticle layers were raised and not permitting the hair strands to lay one upon the other, and raised will promote moisture-loss over time and then damage to the inner fibers, and a gentle suggestion that she return to using conditioner, she did. Had she not mentioned that to me and had she continued keeping her hair's normal ph of 3.67 raised to a higher 8.5-9 pH she would eventually have had dry, brittle hair and from there, worse damage: splitting and breakage. It's important for anyone using soap/shampoo bars to lower the pH of their hair after washing because hair is not like skin (5.5 pH). Skin will rebound and balance itself back out, hair cannot; cuticles will not lower themselves.

    My whole purpose in making and using shampoo bars was to get away from synthetic detergents. Using "real" soap had quite literally cured my fingers from drying out so severely that the skin would break open and bleed. From there the skin around the open cracks would dry and further splitting would occur--painful and unsightly. This happens usually right before we enter autumn and lasts until after spring; it can occur during spring/summer but just isn't an every-day thing. I've been like this all throughout life, until age 54 of when I began to make soap. Being that I must be predisposed to severe drying by detergents, I wanted something free of detergents for my hair. I understand the dangers of not lowering my hair's pH and that this will eventually cause real damage.

    I couldn't believe a person joined a soap forum with the intent to make others quite marketing soap as shampoo. Or, as he/she told others, call it 'hair soap.' And to insinuate that they are engaging in false advertising--history called it shampoo so how is that false advertising?
     

Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page

Group Builder