Does anybody here promote CP soap as shampoo?

Discussion in 'Lye-Based Soap Forum' started by Auxotroph, Oct 28, 2019.

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  1. Oct 28, 2019 #1

    Auxotroph

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    If so, what makes you think that skin soap is suitable for the hair, and also, if soap was in fact suitable for hair, then why do they make shampoo?

    Just trying to understand the logic of why people think that saponified oil is good for the hair.
     
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  2. Oct 28, 2019 #2

    artemis

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    There are so many threads and posts on this. Have you tried searching the forum for "shampoo bars"?
     
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  3. Oct 28, 2019 #3
  4. Oct 28, 2019 #4

    Auxotroph

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    all that stuff is just cold press soap. What makes you think that cold press soap is good for the hair?
    I have read all the threads and still can't see the logic in why you would call body soap shampoo.
    Is it very wise to retain hundreds of threads claiming cp soap to be shampoo?
    I have seen people selling this stuff at markets.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  5. Oct 28, 2019 #5

    IrishLass

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    Lye-based soaps as shampoo used to be promoted and/or extolled by many here, and although some still do extol it, more and more over the years I've seen that many of the folks that used to extol it no longer do so (and strongly recommend against it) because they began to experience damage to their hair after long-term use.....some damage even so severe that certain folks had to drastically cut most of their hair off and go back to using regular shampoo.

    A lot of the testimonies follow the same pattern.....when they first started using it, their hair seemed to thrive with it for a time......until it no longer thrived and things started turning ugly.

    I tried using lye-based soap as shampoo once for a short amount of time- maybe a week, or so- along with an acidic rinse. Although I liked how it seemed to make my hair look thicker (I have fine hair) I decided to stop because I absolutely hated how it made my hair feel and look otherwise.....like a mass of coarse, dry straw.


    IrishLass :)
     
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  6. Oct 28, 2019 #6

    dixiedragon

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    Why do you ask? To me, your tone reads that you are looking for an argument.

    I think the general consensus here is that soap (meaning actual saponified oils), is not good for hair, especially for long hair. If you have very short hair, I don't think it matters much.

    As far as hair care goes, some people really battle with scalp help vs hair health. I think some people with eczema, for example, find that CP soap is better for the scalp but not good for the hair. I find that I need to rotate between a dandruff shampoo and a non-dandruff shampoo. My hair is pretty long - past my shoulder blades - and I've gotten to the point where I wash it every 3-4 days and condition the heck out of it.
     
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  7. Oct 28, 2019 #7

    shunt2011

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    It’s Cold Processed Soap. And there are many who tout how wonderful their CP soap is for their and others hair. However, there are many of us who tried and had it ruin our hair to the point it was cut short.
    So, it comes down to yes, some can use it but many cannot. It’s a personal decision of someone chooses to try it.
    I do not suggest or recommend anyone uses CP soap on their hair and Advise my customers of this as well. I’ve had many ask and explain why not.
     
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  8. Oct 29, 2019 #8

    Auxotroph

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    It just goes to show how much mis information there is on the internet about soap making.
    Using the internet to base ideas around cp soap making is not advisable.
    This shook me up a bit, as when I went around the markets looking at soap this weekend and found most of them were selling cp soap as shampoo.
    I asked one lady what differentiates her soap from her shampoo bars. She told me her shampoo bars had Castor oil in them. I then asked her if her soap sells in salons, she said no.
     
  9. Oct 29, 2019 #9

    Obsidian

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    I think many people who use or sell lye shampoo bars are under the impression that its more natural therefore, better then commercial shampoos.

    I was one who used shampoo bars, for quite a long time actually before they destroyed my hair.
    They were great for my scalp. My skin issues cleared up and I was happy to keep using them even though my hair didn't look or feel that great. It all breaking off was the last straw.

    As far as I know, only one person here uses lye shampoo with good results. She is one of the few and far between who can without damage.
     
  10. Oct 29, 2019 #10

    jentlesoaps

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    I have only made one natural soap in 30 years that I use as a clarifier (not regular use) when the build up from commercial shampoos gets too much I do indeed enjoy using it . It's not a bar soap nor is it made with NaOH. In addition I use either a high quality leave in conditioner and/or use a vinegar spritz immediately after cleansing. Of course I also enjoy using LUSH's BIG shampoo (lots of sodium in that one!). My hair can handle the alkalinity (very long hair). My hair is virgin and untreated (also probably another reason why I can use a high ph cleanser on my hair). If you use a hair drier or other heat tool or chemical treated hair, high pH cleansers will likely ruin your hair in combination with a CP shampoo. Any harsh environmental factor increases the likelihood of damage. If you want to market a shampoo for selling I'd recommend learning how to formulate a proper synthetic detergent bar (syndet) or liquid shampoo.

    Yes, there are a lot of soap makers out there toting that castor oil makes a good shampoo bar. It doesn't mean it works for everyone. This formulation advice has been around for at least 30 years that I know of. They really are not the best cleansers. Some will even leave your hair feeling greasy (too high of a superfat). Again, look to syndets for a better product.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2019
  11. Oct 29, 2019 #11

    Bladesmith

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    I'm a guy who has a very short haircut. I didn't initially intend to use my bar soap for my hair but I started when I ran out of shampoo. When I tried shampoo again, it made my head really itchy. I've been using bar soap now for over 6 months on my head.

    I will continue until I notice some ill effects. So far, I much prefer it to shampoo but, like I said, I know it's not the best thing for hair.

    Also, I don't sell soap and definitely don't sell soap as a hair product. When friends and family ask me about using my soap for their head, I tell them it's not a great idea and they can try it at their own risk.
     
  12. Oct 29, 2019 #12

    KiwiMoose

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    My friend in Tauranga told me how she was using a lye based soap as shampoo, and I advised her against it, after what i had read on here. She went back to her naturopath ( who makes the soap) who claimed it was perfectly safe and natural, and "pH balanced" and although I tried, I could not convince her to take my word over her naturopath's. I only hope that she doesn't get a year or two down the track and have her hair fall out.

    You can still make a synthetic detergent shampoo bar - like they sell at Lush for example - and whilst you can't really claim it is 'natural', at least you can get rid of the plastic bottles.
     
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  13. Oct 29, 2019 #13

    Dawni

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    I have an uncle who, for the last 20+ years or so, has never bought liquid shampoo nor any syndet shampoo bar... He uses whatever soap he uses on his body, and is never picky. Sometimes it's lye based CP soap, sometimes it's a syndet soap, sometimes it's one of those hybrid ones.

    His hair is always cut close to his head, is thick n curly but is always soft. He's never had a dandruff problem and his scalp never gets that weird stink even after sweating all day (he works on his n my mom's farm).

    All that being said..... What works for him does not work for me, does not work for his wife n daughters but does work for his son. Which means...... What works for them may not work for a lot of other people out there. So, to each his own, I say.
     
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  14. Oct 29, 2019 #14

    SoaperForLife

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    I made and sold cp shampoo bars for a while (a very long time ago). I also used them. My experience was that there was a long period of adjustment where you had to use a vinegar rinse or your hair would feel like yuck. Then I found that I didn't need to wash my hair every day anymore and I really liked that! I stopped using them when my hair started getting thinner - I don't know if it was because of the shampoo bar or if it was because I was in my late 50's at that point. I tend to think it had more to do with my age since my hair is still thinner. Earlier this year I decided to try one of the Lush shampoo bars (which in actuality are probably just as bad as CP shampoo bars due to their high pH). Now I make and sell syndet shampoo bars and I will probably never go back to liquid shampoo.
     
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  15. Oct 29, 2019 #15

    dixiedragon

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    I love the LUSH syndet shampoo bars. I was looking for some on Etsy in some different scents, but most of the shampoo bars on Etsy are soap, and since most Etsy sellers aren't marketing to soapers specitically, nobody appears to label their bars syndet in the description. I have to open each entry and read the ingredients. I gave up and just buy LUSH.
     
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  16. Oct 29, 2019 #16

    lucycat

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    I order from Get Lathered. (Etsy & her own shop). I like her syndet shampoo bars but absolutely love her conditioner bars. I purchased first to decide if I wanted to learn to make. I really liked her shampoo bar when I started using it a few years ago. I am not as fond today since my hair is much coarser now with more grey. Her conditioner bars lasts so long that I finally decided I was just better off buying hers.
     
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  17. Oct 29, 2019 #17

    Cereal

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    I’ve been selling liquid and bar soap at local markets for a few months now. Every single day at least two people ask if I sell shampoo bars, and then most times we get into a friendly discussion about soap versus shampoo/synthetic surfectants (this usually involves me explaining basic soap chemistry stuff to people but not always). Many people just don’t know the difference between soap ans other cleansers...”but the shampoo bar I get from Lush is really nice” is a common refrain).

    People really want them mostly down to marketing, I think. and some people who “make soap” don’t worry too much about details or chemistry. (I’ve spoken to many people who happily tell me they make soap too, which ends up usually meaning they melt soap, or add fragrance to a commercial liquid soap base.)

    I always explain how soap is not really the thing for hair (or dishwashing liquid) which is why I make neither. And that they would probably need an acid rinse, and might damage their hair. They mostly still want to buy it.

    I’m *really* close to just giving in and making some*, since it will sell really well, even with my explanation that they probably shouldn’t use it in the first place.

    *(which would involve high superfat, citric acid, and lots of castor oil...as far as I can tell, pretty much all one can do to still not even really make shampoo.)
     
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  18. Oct 29, 2019 #18

    Obsidian

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    @dixiedragon, ScenterSquare on etsy sells syndet bars and pretty good conditioner bars.
    Sometimes she even has a diy syndet kit so you can make your own bars.
     
  19. Oct 29, 2019 #19

    KiwiMoose

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    I hear you! This happens all the time - I try to explain the difference to people, because they all ask if I make a shampoo bar. You have to make your explanation simple and concise otherwise you can see their eyes glazing over as you speak. I usually start with the fact that Lush shampoos bars are syndet - not lye based, and that the benefit to using them is that you don't waste plastic bottles. I then state that it's best not to use a lye based product on your hair because of the high pH. Some get it - some don't. I must admit, when i started soaping and asking these same questions myself, it took a while for it to sink in!
     
  20. Oct 29, 2019 #20

    Kiti Williams

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    I am on the other side of this topic. I have been using a shampoo (lye based) bar for over 2 years now. My hair was uber think until I got to 50 years old, then my hair thinned out a bit. My hair is down past my waist and is not suffering from the shampoo bar. No straw ends, no damaged hair. All the people who have tested my soaps have had zero bad effects, these people have been my trial group for 1.5 years.
     
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