coffeetime
Well-Known Member
Actually vinegar is not really recommended for lye on skin. The reaction between the vinegar and lye can cause more damage as it gives off heat. Best to stick with a good rinse with water.
Dental soap
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Thank you for these two. They are a start. I am attempting to find an article, or link to an article, in a medical or dental journal itself - with no luck. I tried to request the information from the the first link, but it did not go through. Then I noticed that they said one might also contact them at worldental(at) gmail.com. This raised a red flag with me since most world wide organizatons don't use gmail as their form of contact.
roblem: But, I will search a little more to see what I can find.
MadMadamMim
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Very interesting thread! I made a homemade tooth soap from an online recipe using Dr. Bonners and coconut oil and some other things and it was disgusting :sick: but really effective. There was was some water in which you dissolved xylitol or stevia and that addition caused it to have a rather short shelf life which is why I got away from using it.
I'm encouraged to hear that skipping or using very small amounts of CO will alleviate that awful taste. I'd like to pick it up again as I really noticed a difference in my dental health when I was using it. Doing it as a CP soap will really be a time saver.
I'm encouraged to hear that skipping or using very small amounts of CO will alleviate that awful taste. I'd like to pick it up again as I really noticed a difference in my dental health when I was using it. Doing it as a CP soap will really be a time saver.
Coconut oil is one of the oils that make your dental soap taste "soapy".
Triquetra
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Curious, Ive read through this thread so bare with me if I missed it - what other oil is better used if Coconut oil is soapy tasting. Would it matter if its fractionated coconut oil or Coconut oil 76 that makes it soap tasting?
Lin
Well-Known Member
You definitely still need to zap test or otherwise test HP soap, it can be just as lye heavy as CP soap.My understanding was she did not want to make CP soap due to tongue testing.
In HP there is no need test it and even if you wonder about it being "heavy" the heat processing will turn the majority of the lye resulting in much less tingling on the tongue.
And you never want to use vinegar on skin after lye, the 'neutralizing' reaction will put off a large amount of heat burning you worse.
Just as a side note, dental soap first made its appearance in the 1800s as well as tooth powder in the 1940s. This is nothing new, but rather remembering what we did in the past that worked.
sunfloweracres
Well-Known Member
Tooth Soap
I don't think shea butter would taste very good, just my opinion. It seems like cocoa butter with the OO would be a better choice.:smile:
After reading some of the posts on here and around the internet, I just tried one of my Hibiscus tea fragrance free salt bars made with CO, OO, and Castor oil and it wasn't to bad. My teeth feel really clean. I agree, it will be fun to make a special soap (in small bars) for teeth. What do you guys think of a salt bar?
I don't think shea butter would taste very good, just my opinion. It seems like cocoa butter with the OO would be a better choice.:smile:
After reading some of the posts on here and around the internet, I just tried one of my Hibiscus tea fragrance free salt bars made with CO, OO, and Castor oil and it wasn't to bad. My teeth feel really clean. I agree, it will be fun to make a special soap (in small bars) for teeth. What do you guys think of a salt bar?
Keep in mind that you don't want grit in the soap as it will scratch the enamel on your teeth...
kaliquen
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but chapstick tubes are excellent for tooth soap. I got tired of chasing the blob of soap around the bowl it was in so I grated it, melted it down with a little water in the microwave and put it in a piping bag to squirt into the tubes. Works perfectly!
MadMadamMim
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Great idea, kaliquen!
BEFORE YOUR BEGIN: My comment is without malicious intent, I am merely presenting facts in a calm manner from my end.
Your assumption is incorrect. As with chemists who have tunnel vision and only beleive what they THINK they read, you failed to comprehend the entire message. It is a mixture of water, soap AND vinegar.
I have used this method vs plain water since 1999, as do those I have taught on my list since that time. Plain water takes much longer to rinse off and gallons to do so. The water and soap mixed with lye buffers the "chemical reaction" the chemist warn against. Sometimes it does not take "rocket science" to see common sense.
I was also told by "experienced" soap makers it was dangerous to make soap in a crockpot, and it was impossible to mold HP soap in pretty molds, and that you cannot make a 100% white goatmilk soap - but I did and with many witnesses at the Aberdeen gathering of 2001.
For too many years "experienced" soapmakers would frighten new ones with how "hard" it is to make soap on the yahoo lists. I wrote that book for Northlight Publications showing new soapmakers just how EASY it really can be.
I am not so unthinking that I must believe everything a chemist posts to their group. After all, they work in an industry that strips real soaps glycerin to use in makeup to help make the risk of the man-made chemical components in it, then use plant glycerin back into soap soap it sells. Plant glycerin in too high of an amount can in itself be drying to many skin types. As does clays. There is a lot to learn about soap making, combining oils and ingredients to make soap do what the soap maker wants it to do and not merely rely on trial and error. As an example … 4 ounces of castor oil is all one needs for a good shampoo bar. The other oils is what makes the softening, strengthing or gentleness and shine components of a bar. Too much castor will ruin a bar.
In the past week I have felt like a handful of soap makers have attempted to discredit what I have written to new people. Just because I haven't had time to respond regularly does not mean I do not know what I am taking about. So, please stop trying to discredit my comments by assuming I am new soap maker. I think everyone here is clever enough to pick and choose whose comment they wish to try or follow. :angel:
coffeetime
Well-Known Member
Delores, I don't think anyone is treating you like a newbie. There are lots of people on here who are new to the forum but have also been making soap for awhile. I have been making soap for almost 20 years, and I know that regardless of what you do personally, on a public forum like this you always offer the safest advice you can because there are lots of beginning soapmakers reading these forums to learn the ropes.
@ pjdxxxwa -
It's fine that you want to stand behind what you state in your comments and no one is trying to discredit you. However, I agree with coffeetime and Lin. The safest advice and the most important thing is to get the lye or raw soap rapidly off your skin and cool, running water is best.
To clarify for anyone who is new to soapmaking, use running water to rinse off and not straight vinegar. Putting vinegar on lye causes it to heat up before beginning to "neutralize" the lye. You will make the burn worse if you pour straight vinegar on it. A blend of primarily water with a little vinegar and soap as pjdxxxwa mentioned would work but running water is faster and effective. It doesn't take gallons to rinse off the lye unless you've splashed a large amount of lye all over your body. Then I recommend jumping into the shower for at least 15 minutes and using gallons of water to rinse off. After rinsing, a blend of water, vinegar and soap could be used if anyone feels the need for further rinsing.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=6735
http://itonlyadds.blogspot.com/2012/08/on-chemical-burns-vinegar-and-liquefied.html
If I inadvertently splash a little lye or raw soap on me, I just rinse with cold water for a few minutes. It doesn't take long to rinse it off and I've never had any burns from doing it this way. But I don't use more than a 33% lye concentration unless I'm making bastile soap so this might account for the ease of diluting and rinsing off with water.
Also, I always test for lye in HP batches because I want to make sure the lye is converted before adding EOs or FOs.
It's fine that you want to stand behind what you state in your comments and no one is trying to discredit you. However, I agree with coffeetime and Lin. The safest advice and the most important thing is to get the lye or raw soap rapidly off your skin and cool, running water is best.
To clarify for anyone who is new to soapmaking, use running water to rinse off and not straight vinegar. Putting vinegar on lye causes it to heat up before beginning to "neutralize" the lye. You will make the burn worse if you pour straight vinegar on it. A blend of primarily water with a little vinegar and soap as pjdxxxwa mentioned would work but running water is faster and effective. It doesn't take gallons to rinse off the lye unless you've splashed a large amount of lye all over your body. Then I recommend jumping into the shower for at least 15 minutes and using gallons of water to rinse off. After rinsing, a blend of water, vinegar and soap could be used if anyone feels the need for further rinsing.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=6735
http://itonlyadds.blogspot.com/2012/08/on-chemical-burns-vinegar-and-liquefied.html
If I inadvertently splash a little lye or raw soap on me, I just rinse with cold water for a few minutes. It doesn't take long to rinse it off and I've never had any burns from doing it this way. But I don't use more than a 33% lye concentration unless I'm making bastile soap so this might account for the ease of diluting and rinsing off with water.
Also, I always test for lye in HP batches because I want to make sure the lye is converted before adding EOs or FOs.
Lin
Well-Known Member
Incorrect, there is no way to 100% ensure that everything was measured correctly. Your scale may have failed. There may be a problem with a new bottle of lye. The lye may not have fully dissolved for some reason. You always need to test soap for safety, regardless of the method made to make the soap. You could equally claim that you didn't need to test CP soap if you'd measured correctly and had a big superfat. But you do, its just basic safety measures. Its better to test every batch for safety than to make 500 safe batches to 1 lye heavy batch that burns yourself or someone else.
The neutralization reaction between vinegar and lye produces heat. Its an exothermic reaction. Anyone can research this or with proper equipment test it themselves. Even dilute vinegar in water, while the risk of a heat burn is much lower there is no reason to use that over straight water to dilute and remove lye. I do use dilute vinegar on items like the table as an extra precaution during cleanup, but never skin.
And as said, replies you're getting have nothing to do with being new to the forum. I'm rather new to the forum, as is coffee (just noticed that!). Replies are replies, I don't know of anyone who checks when you joined the forum before deciding how to reply to someone.
And to "clarify" I did NOT state to put "straight vinegar" on a lye splash. You are the third person to not clearly read what i wrote. Let's do this simpler:
Have ready THIS mixture:
1 cup of cold water +
small squirt of dish soap +
⅛ c. vinegar
This BUFFERS and NEUTRALIZES the lye (WITHOUT THE BURN REACTION) and much faster gallons of cold water trinsing that can redden the skin as you wait for all the lye to finally be rinsed off.
I do wish people would actually read ALL words rather posting on an assumption of what they think they read.
And yes, a bead of lye (not removed or pushed into the skin by the strap of a sandle) or a splash left on the skin can cause skin damage. Did I say it could not? No, I did not. Go back a reread what I wrote. I said it is nothing to fear if you treat lye with respect when handling it, and hopefully with a little common sense, as well. READ all WORD in post and common sense should follow.
This is the type of thing that caused Kathy Miller and Catherine Failor to stop posting to lists. And why I normally do not. One gets tired of the bickering and my way is the only way posts.
I haven't time for these games. Good bye. :wave:
Getting back to the original subject of this thread, I found these receipts in an old book. I thought you might get a kick (and maybe some ideas) from reading about dental soaps of the past.
Taken from The Encyclopedia of Practical Receipts and Processes, William B Dick, 1872. Please take these recipes with a grain of salt (or soap) due to their age. Comments and clarifications given in square brackets [ ] are mine. Enjoy!
TOOTHPASTES. These may consist of any of the substances ordinarily used as dentifrices, reduced to the state of impalpable powder, and beaten up with sufficient honey (liquefied by a gentle heat), syrup, or capillaire [orange flavored syrup], to give them the form of a smooth and moderately stiff paste or electuary [sweetened medicinal paste], a sufficient quantity of aromatics being usually added, as it were, to "embalm [the word is used here in the old sense "to sweeten"] and perfume the mouth." Honey of roses is often, and conserve of roses sometimes, used for those in which their odor and color are suitable. A little rectified spirit [high-proof ethanol aka EverClear] is a useful addition, as tending to preserve them, and promote their action. A little eau de Cologne or lavender water is often employed, with the same intention. They are usually put up in porcelain or ornamental glazed earthenware pots, furnished with closely fitting covers, to preserve their contents from the air. The mixed powders should be passed through a very fine gauze-sieve, before adding the honey, and the paste should not be potted until the day following that on which it is made.
1311. Soap Tooth Paste. Take of Castile soap (air-dried, in fine powder), and cuttlefish bone, of each 2 ounces; honey, 4 or 5 ounces; aromatics or perfume at will, with or without the addition of a little rectified spirit. A very excellent preparation, superior to all the other pastes for cleaning the teeth and removing tartar and calculus from them, but inferior in blanching and preservative qualities to areca nut charcoal paste. A pink or rose color may be given it by adding 1 drachm [dram, 1/16 ounce, about 1.8 grams] of finely powdered cochineal, or a fluid drachm or two of the tincture. It is commonly ordered in books to be made with honey of roses, but the alkali of the soap spoils the color of this article. The above preparation is also known under the names of Spanish Dentifrice, and Castilian Tooth Cream.
1313. Odontine. There are several dentifrices advertised under this name, two or three of which have acquired a very large sale in the fashionable world. That of an eminent perfumery house appears to have the following composition: Cuttle-fish bone, Castile soap and red coral, equal parts; color with tincture of cochineal and mix with honey sufficient to make a paste, and essential oils to aromatize, a sufficient quantity of each.
1327. Balm of Thousand Flowers. Take of white Castile soap, 2 ounces; honey, 4 ounces; water, 12 ounces; alcohol, 4 ounces; melt the Castile soap and honey in the alcohol and water with a gentle heat. Flavor with oil of rose and wintergreen. Used as a dentifrice.
[Here's a cocoa butter tooth paste:]
1314. Pelitier's Odontine is said to consist of pulverized sepia-bone (cuttle-fish bone), with a little butter of cacao [cocoa butter], beaten up with honey and aromatized or scented with essential oils.
Taken from The Encyclopedia of Practical Receipts and Processes, William B Dick, 1872. Please take these recipes with a grain of salt (or soap) due to their age. Comments and clarifications given in square brackets [ ] are mine. Enjoy!
TOOTHPASTES. These may consist of any of the substances ordinarily used as dentifrices, reduced to the state of impalpable powder, and beaten up with sufficient honey (liquefied by a gentle heat), syrup, or capillaire [orange flavored syrup], to give them the form of a smooth and moderately stiff paste or electuary [sweetened medicinal paste], a sufficient quantity of aromatics being usually added, as it were, to "embalm [the word is used here in the old sense "to sweeten"] and perfume the mouth." Honey of roses is often, and conserve of roses sometimes, used for those in which their odor and color are suitable. A little rectified spirit [high-proof ethanol aka EverClear] is a useful addition, as tending to preserve them, and promote their action. A little eau de Cologne or lavender water is often employed, with the same intention. They are usually put up in porcelain or ornamental glazed earthenware pots, furnished with closely fitting covers, to preserve their contents from the air. The mixed powders should be passed through a very fine gauze-sieve, before adding the honey, and the paste should not be potted until the day following that on which it is made.
1311. Soap Tooth Paste. Take of Castile soap (air-dried, in fine powder), and cuttlefish bone, of each 2 ounces; honey, 4 or 5 ounces; aromatics or perfume at will, with or without the addition of a little rectified spirit. A very excellent preparation, superior to all the other pastes for cleaning the teeth and removing tartar and calculus from them, but inferior in blanching and preservative qualities to areca nut charcoal paste. A pink or rose color may be given it by adding 1 drachm [dram, 1/16 ounce, about 1.8 grams] of finely powdered cochineal, or a fluid drachm or two of the tincture. It is commonly ordered in books to be made with honey of roses, but the alkali of the soap spoils the color of this article. The above preparation is also known under the names of Spanish Dentifrice, and Castilian Tooth Cream.
1313. Odontine. There are several dentifrices advertised under this name, two or three of which have acquired a very large sale in the fashionable world. That of an eminent perfumery house appears to have the following composition: Cuttle-fish bone, Castile soap and red coral, equal parts; color with tincture of cochineal and mix with honey sufficient to make a paste, and essential oils to aromatize, a sufficient quantity of each.
1327. Balm of Thousand Flowers. Take of white Castile soap, 2 ounces; honey, 4 ounces; water, 12 ounces; alcohol, 4 ounces; melt the Castile soap and honey in the alcohol and water with a gentle heat. Flavor with oil of rose and wintergreen. Used as a dentifrice.
[Here's a cocoa butter tooth paste:]
1314. Pelitier's Odontine is said to consist of pulverized sepia-bone (cuttle-fish bone), with a little butter of cacao [cocoa butter], beaten up with honey and aromatized or scented with essential oils.
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Thank you for that DeeAnna
Most welcome!
Dontcha love the archaic language? When I hit the word "embalm", it really threw me, so I went back to old dictionaries to find out why one would use this word in this particular context. Thankfully the old usage of "to sweeten" is a much nicer alternative meaning!
This book is free to download at the Internet Archive. It is a fascinating read (at least for me!) There is a large section about soap making which is especially interesting. https://archive.org/details/encyclopediaofpr00dick or https://archive.org/details/encyclopediaofpr00dickrich
Dontcha love the archaic language? When I hit the word "embalm", it really threw me, so I went back to old dictionaries to find out why one would use this word in this particular context. Thankfully the old usage of "to sweeten" is a much nicer alternative meaning!
This book is free to download at the Internet Archive. It is a fascinating read (at least for me!) There is a large section about soap making which is especially interesting. https://archive.org/details/encyclopediaofpr00dick or https://archive.org/details/encyclopediaofpr00dickrich
