deconstructing big name soap

[SoapDaddy70]

As a little project I am trying to figure out the recipe for one of the big name companies bar that I like. They have Big Foot as their mascot. First ingredient is sunflower oil. I have read that too much Sunflower oil will make an overly soft bar. Do these big name companies purposely make soft bars so that they will dissolve quicker so you buy more soap at a faster rate?

 

[lenarenee]

Which scent do you have? The ones I looked at were a basic trilogy plus shea. Going back to look more..

ETA; yup, olive, palm, coconut, shea. No castor. Interesting. You could start with 30% each olive and palm, 25% co, and 5% shea.

 

[SoapDaddy70]

The one I am looking at is the Cedarwood and Citrus and the interesting thing is that the Olive Oil is the last ingredient.

 

[SoapDaddy70]

Jeez. Stupid me. It is not Dr Squatch, it is Bearsville Soap Company. Sorry!!

 

[SoapDaddy70]

As a little project I am trying to figure out the recipe for one of the big name companies bar that I like. They have Big Foot as their mascot. First ingredient is sunflower oil. I have read that too much Sunflower oil will make an overly soft bar. Do these big name companies purposely make soft bars so that they will dissolve quicker so you buy more soap at a faster rate?

My bad. Not the company i thought it was. Actually Bearsville Soap Company. Sorry!!

 

[SoapDaddy70]

Which scent do you have? The ones I looked at were a basic trilogy plus shea. Going back to look more..

ETA; yup, olive, palm, coconut, shea. No castor. Interesting. You could start with 30% each olive and palm, 25% co, and 5% shea.

Sorry. It was from Bearsville Soap Company. Cedar wood and Citrus.

 

[lenarenee]

Sorry. It was from Bearsville Soap Company. Cedar wood and Citrus.

I looked at their bars. That was fun. Basically almost every bar either has a slightly different recipe, or someone didn't bother to list ingredients in descending order.

Olive oil is more expensive than sunflower, and many people divide between the oils for cut costs. However, sunflower (especially if high oleic) is a respectable soaping oil, and similar to olive. I use it in place of olive myself, but so far not over 20%.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I agree. I’ve been moving towards replacing some olive oil in my recipe with HO sunflower and I really love the results.

 

[SoapDaddy70]

I looked at their bars. That was fun. Basically almost every bar either has a slightly different recipe, or someone didn't bother to list ingredients in descending order.

Olive oil is more expensive than sunflower, and many people divide between the oils for cut costs. However, sunflower (especially if high oleic) is a respectable soaping oil, and similar to olive. I use it in place of olive myself, but so far not over 20%.

Yeah, I noticed that also. The recipes were different for each bar. The one I looked at had Olive Oil as the last ingredient so if they listed the ingredients in descending order there would be less olive oil than both the lye and the water. First stab at the percentages I came up with is...
34% High Oleic Sunflower Oil
34% Palm Oil
20% Coconut Oil
12% Olive Oil

Might try this just for the hell of it and throw it in a Pringle’s Can for the mold.

 

[lenarenee]

Yeah, I noticed that also. The recipes were different for each bar. The one I looked at had Olive Oil as the last ingredient so if they listed the ingredients in descending order there would be less olive oil than both the lye and the water. First stab at the percentages I came up with is...
34% High Oleic Sunflower Oil
34% Palm Oil
20% Coconut Oil
12% Olive Oil

Might try this just for the hell of it and throw it in a Pringle’s Can for the mold.

Sure - why not give it a go,
But - somehow I think they just didn't list the ingredients in order. Or - their supply chain has caused them to really mess around with their recipe. I don't see a reason to have 5 slightly different recipes when you don't advertise those different bars as being - different. Such as - face bar, dry skin bar, oily skin, etc.

 

[TheGecko]

As a little project I am trying to figure out the recipe for one of the big name companies bar that I like. They have Big Foot as their mascot. First ingredient is sunflower oil. I have read that too much Sunflower oil will make an overly soft bar. Do these big name companies purposely make soft bars so that they will dissolve quicker so you buy more soap at a faster rate?

After looking over a dozen bars, I would safely guess that the ingredient list is just that...a list. In some lists it looks like some effort was made to list as for label.

When deconstructing a soap, I first write out the ingredients and then I check what conventional usage rates for the oils and butters are. Olive Oil is 100%, Coconut Oil is 15%-33%, Palm Oil is 33%, Shea Butter is 15%, Sunflower Oil is 20%. The soaps that list Sunflower Oil, omit Shea Butter.

Speaking for myself, I have two basic recipes...one for Regular Soap and one for Goat Milk Soap. Outside of the liquid, water vs goat milk soap, the difference between the recipes is that one has Cocoa Butter and the other doesn’t. I would hazard to guess that they are doing something similar.

The ‘holy trinity’ of soap making is 34% Olive Oil, 33% Coconut Oil and 33% Palm Oil. So I would start with the usage rate for Shea Butter at 15% leaving you with 85%. I think Castor Oil at 5% is important, so now we have 80%. From there, I would go with 25% each Coconut and Palm Oils, and round it out with 30% Olive Oil. Excepting the Castor Oil, these percentages match most of the bars.

 

[SoapDaddy70]

After looking over a dozen bars, I would safely guess that the ingredient list is just that...a list. In some lists it looks like some effort was made to list as for label.

When deconstructing a soap, I first write out the ingredients and then I check what conventional usage rates for the oils and butters are. Olive Oil is 100%, Coconut Oil is 15%-33%, Palm Oil is 33%, Shea Butter is 15%, Sunflower Oil is 20%. The soaps that list Sunflower Oil, omit Shea Butter.

Speaking for myself, I have two basic recipes...one for Regular Soap and one for Goat Milk Soap. Outside of the liquid, water vs goat milk soap, the difference between the recipes is that one has Cocoa Butter and the other doesn’t. I would hazard to guess that they are doing something similar.

The ‘holy trinity’ of soap making is 34% Olive Oil, 33% Coconut Oil and 33% Palm Oil. So I would start with the usage rate for Shea Butter at 15% leaving you with 85%. I think Castor Oil at 5% is important, so now we have 80%. From there, I would go with 25% each Coconut and Palm Oils, and round it out with 30% Olive Oil. Excepting the Castor Oil, these percentages match most of the bars.

Thanks Gecko for the detailed response. Stinks that I can't know for sure whether the ingredients are listed haphazardly or in descending order. This was just something I was thinking about while bored the other night in front of the TV. Realize now I should just concentrate on dialing in my own recipes and learning that way rather than worry about stuff I can't know for sure. Thanks again.

 

[TheGecko]

Thanks Gecko for the detailed response. Stinks that I can't know for sure whether the ingredients are listed haphazardly or in descending order. This was just something I was thinking about while bored the other night in front of the TV. Realize now I should just concentrate on dialing in my own recipes and learning that way rather than worry about stuff I can't know for sure. Thanks again.

There is nothing wrong with referencing successful recipes. I watch a lot of soapers on YT and checkout their ingredients and designs. Not necessarily to copy them...I'm quite happy with my own recipe and designs, but to see how different ingredients, additives, colorants, and scents behave and look under various circumstances.

My Regular Soap recipe is 35% Olive Oil, 20% each Coconut and Palm Oils, 5% Castor Oils and 10% Cocoa and Shea Butters. My additives are 1 tea each Kaolin Clay and Sodium Lactate PPO (per pound of oils). I use a 5% SuperFat and 33% Lye Concentration during the Spring/Summer and 35% Lye Concentration during the Fall/Winter. The reason for the change is because I live in the Pacific Northwest where we get a lot of rain and my garage isn't insulated.

I master batch my oils/butters and lye solution so I tend to soap at lower temps. You are welcomed to use my recipe if you would like. I haven't done any overly fancy designs with more than 3 colors, but I have been lazy enough to make a few 14lb batches and then spend close to an hour splitting it several times to make different kinds of of soaps. Even when it reached medium trace at the end, it was still fluid enough swirl and not have air pockets.

 

[SoapDaddy70]

There is nothing wrong with referencing successful recipes. I watch a lot of soapers on YT and checkout their ingredients and designs. Not necessarily to copy them...I'm quite happy with my own recipe and designs, but to see how different ingredients, additives, colorants, and scents behave and look under various circumstances.

My Regular Soap recipe is 35% Olive Oil, 20% each Coconut and Palm Oils, 5% Castor Oils and 10% Cocoa and Shea Butters. My additives are 1 tea each Kaolin Clay and Sodium Lactate PPO (per pound of oils). I use a 5% SuperFat and 33% Lye Concentration during the Spring/Summer and 35% Lye Concentration during the Fall/Winter. The reason for the change is because I live in the Pacific Northwest where we get a lot of rain and my garage isn't insulated.

I master batch my oils/butters and lye solution so I tend to soap at lower temps. You are welcomed to use my recipe if you would like. I haven't done any overly fancy designs with more than 3 colors, but I have been lazy enough to make a few 14lb batches and then spend close to an hour splitting it several times to make different kinds of of soaps. Even when it reached medium trace at the end, it was still fluid enough swirl and not have air pockets.

Very generous of you to share. What I am trying to figure out is when am I making too much soap? I have just made my 4th batch and all 4 recipes have been different. Since all of them have to cure I wont be able to actually test how each recipe is for a few weeks. In that amount of time if I make one batch every week I will be swimming in soap without actually knowing which recipes I like or dislike. I guess this is an issue many new soapmakers run into. I am absolutely addicted to the process and the learning so I just want to keep making my 2.5lb batches. When is it detrimental to the learning process to just keep making soap without knowing how the soap actually performs. Thanks for all of your help!!

 

[AliOop]

Very generous of you to share. What I am trying to figure out is when am I making too much soap? I have just made my 4th batch and all 4 recipes have been different. Since all of them have to cure I wont be able to actually test how each recipe is for a few weeks. In that amount of time if I make one batch every week I will be swimming in soap without actually knowing which recipes I like or dislike. I guess this is an issue many new soapmakers run into. I am absolutely addicted to the process and the learning so I just want to keep making my 2.5lb batches. When is it detrimental to the learning process to just keep making soap without knowing how the soap actually performs. Thanks for all of your help!!

First, consider buying a 1lb or 1.5lb mold so that you make smaller batches.

Second, start looking around now for a place to donate your excess cured soaps: shelters and food banks are the most common beneficiaries. That allows you to keep experimenting without having a room that is stacked with soap from floor to ceiling. I’ve, ahem, heard of people who have had that problem.

 

[TheGecko]

What I am trying to figure out is when am I making too much soap?

When you need to relocate. LOL

Get yourself a couple of smaller molds...Rustic Escentuals has a 4" Square and 6" Slab mold that will work perfectly (I have two 4" ones). Then you can make soap without feeling that you aren't swimming in it because you are only making 4 bars at a time.

I pretty much knew even before I sent my soaps out for testing at 6 weeks which recipe I was going to go with because it was the one that just felt right to me. It didn't get too overly hot during saponification, it unmolded easily at 24 hours, it cut like butter with a hot knife. I of course, couldn't wait the full 6 weeks and started testing at 2 weeks. How does it lather, what kind of bubbles am I getting, how does it do with cold and warm water, how do my hands feel after washing with it? At 4 weeks it was even better.

Mind you, I'm pretty much just making a plain soap; I added a little bit of mica from sample packs for purposes of telling the different recipes apart (blind testing). The only change I made to the recipe I shared above was to add Kaolin Clay.