Deanna, I have a question...

SoapMakingForum

Help Support SoapMakingForum:

Obsidian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
9,612
Reaction score
6,849
Location
Idaho, USA
I've been up since 4AM and just finished reading the whole thread. I feel like my head is about to explode and I should go back to bed:eh:

I'll be making a batch today using pomace. I'm going to use Deeanna's method of adding the lye to the oils and bringing to trace before adding in the larger amount of water. I will use a SB at first but will hand stir once initial trace is reached. Not going to force gel, will leave the plastic log mold uncovered to do what it wishes. I will add scent and scant amount of color.

Has anyone who used -30% SF tested whether or not it is non slimy?
 

newbie

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
6,115
Reaction score
5,427
Robert, The eyes are good and I suppose the fact that it is bald is also appropriate (tearing at one's hair) but it just doesn't look wild or terrorized enough, for me at any rate!

AM said she felt that at -30%, she felt a goo factor come back on. She has so far found that -32.5% was as high or low, depending on how you look at it, she could go before it got some goo again.

The lather I've gotten has been more bubbly, but that may be a difference in our water, Krunt. I posted pics on the lather of three of my soaps on page 41, post 407. That was at about 3-4 weeks, from soaps made on Feb 23 and 25th and pics taken on March whatever it says (14 maybe?)
 
Last edited:

Obsidian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
9,612
Reaction score
6,849
Location
Idaho, USA
Ok, my batch is done and it behaved unexpectedly. Lets see what you all think of this. My recipe was 16 oz OO, 16 OZ water, 2.9 oz lye and 2.9oz water. If my math was right it should be -38.5 SF, what AM said the original recipe is.

Starting temps:
OO 67 F
Water 60 F
Lye solution 125 F

Mixed lye into OO with stick blender. Turned dark like milk chocolate, smelled of chemicals. Hit trace in under a minute. Shiny and plastic-y looking. 91* F

Mixed in remaining water with whisk. Try to stir slow and gentle, emulsion broke. Gave up being gentle, added rest of water all at once, 94*F. Mixed vigorously for 3-4 minutes. Batter came together, was super creamy and floating around on a layer of water. Added FO, mixed for anther minuter or so. Poured in mold at 85* F light off white at this point.
Total time from start to finish, under 10 minutes. Why did it trace so fast?

Soap looks just like you all described. Shiny with a weird thick rubber like texture. Thin layer of water around batter in mold. Used a plastic loaf mold so water can't drain away. Will watch it very close, think I'll make room in the fridge if it gets over 100* F in mold.

EDIT: its been in the mold almost 2 hours. Temp is holding around 84.6* F. Soap is slowly setting and shows no sigh of separating. I did use a paper towel to soak up some of the excess liquid from the corners. Liquid has no scent even though I used a full ounce of FO.
 
Last edited:

AnnaMarie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
635
Reaction score
351
Location
Pacific NW
I imagine it traced quick because of the concentrated lye solution and no other water. I thought I'd read that some soap makers do this with their castile (deep water discount) and the result is a quick trace and thick soap. On the chocolate brown...????? I wonder if you would get the same results if you stirred??? Congrats on your initiation into the crazy castile soap club :)
Cheers!
Anna Marie

....don't forget the pics:)
 

newbie

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
6,115
Reaction score
5,427
Chocolate brown batter after lye was added? That sounds strange all by itself. I can see it turning a yellowish color but you've got me there.

Was there a layer of water, like a visible layer of water or do you mean just a coating? If there was a distinct layer, your batter may not have taken up all the excess. DeeAnna did it this way but when she added her excess water, I don't recall that she stirred vigorously. I think she said she stirred very gently and it took her longer than 10 minutes but it didn't take forever or anything. She was using a non-casilte recipe then though.

I don't have a picture of my batches in progress (too few hands) but all the water should go into the soap, except sometimes there is the thinnest layer of it surrounding the batter in the case of the real plastic-y batter or the rubber ball, but that's not enough to drain off. It's just a coating.

Post some pictures!! Also I would be interested to know how long it take for your soap to be firm in the mold and firm enough to unmold.

With FO, scent will seem a bit diluted because of the water excess but as it dries, it will seem more obvious to you, I think.
 
Last edited:

Obsidian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
9,612
Reaction score
6,849
Location
Idaho, USA
Yeah, chocolate brown but it faded pretty quick after all the water was mixed in. I tried to mix the water in slow but the emulsion broke so I used the whisk to beat it in, went back together quick.

There was a thin layer of water around the edges but not a huge amount, I drained off maybe 1/2 teaspoon. I just cut it and any excess liquid has soaked back in. Still quite soft but very easy to slice, didn't stick to the cutter at all.

Looks like it may have gelled in the center. At one point the temp started to rise so I put it in the fridge. Should have gotten a temp then but I forgot.





 

soap_rat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
449
Reaction score
176
Location
Chicago
Wow! Milk chocolate in color, and a chemical smell? That is really strange. I have done the technique you did, of 50% lye solution then adding the excess water (Kirkland olive oil) , and I sure didn't get that. I let the batter rest a lot when I did this, I guess I was babying the emulsion, so it took over an hour. I bet I could have gone faster though. When I did that technique I got the super-thin slippery layer of water, and the batter was like homemade mayonnaise or thin pudding. It never got to thick trace. I can't describe it as rubbery, to me rubbery would mean springing back after I try to push some around.
 

Obsidian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
9,612
Reaction score
6,849
Location
Idaho, USA
I'm betting it had something to do with the OO I used. I bought new brand of Pomace and this was the first batch I made with it. It works just fine though and the soap looks good.
I guess rubbery isn't quite right but its hard to describe. Mine was very thick, went from oil to thick almost instantaneously and stayed their, even when emulsion broke it was thick.
 

btz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
106
Reaction score
47
Obsidian, the lather for this soap is nice and bubbly and cleansing, but needs water to really get it going (at least that's my experience).
You know, it's interesting that you said this. My lye heavy coconut oil soap is the same. It took times to produce the bubble. I haven't tried it since week 3, I'll try it in a few days time when it reaches week 6 to see if it's still the same.

I kinda dreaded trying the sweet almond one, because last time it was slightly slimey and the bar took days to dry after used once. Hopefully it'll be better this time around.

And if my brother didn't forget to bring it, this weekend I'll have olive oil from greece (where my mum went for vacation and bought recently) to try to make the OO version :). Depend on the amount, I might make 2 version at the same time. The lye heavy and normal 7% SF to see which one I like better after they cured.

BTW, has anyone tried other single oil for this? I tried to remember if anyone did rice bran or palm, but couldn't remember.
 

BabyPickles106

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
98
Reaction score
23
Where do those of you that use Pomace oo find it? Our do you have to order? I've been trying to find it but don't see it anywhere local.
 

Obsidian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
9,612
Reaction score
6,849
Location
Idaho, USA
I can find it in gallons locally at most any grocery store. Not sure where you are but if you are in the Western US, try a yokes grocery.
 

cmzaha

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
10,973
Reaction score
9,684
Location
Southern California
If you are US most restaurant supplies carry Pomace. I also have seen it at Cost Plus but not sure of the price. I buy gallons around $15 at Smart & Final
 

btz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
106
Reaction score
47
I finally do the OO version of the lye-heavy soap last Friday and just cut it now. I also use manuka honey in it:






I used volume instead of weight for the oil according to the 6-6-1 rules. The little caves was from the sandalwood FO that refuses to blend in and the evaporate :(. I added the FO after the temp was down and it seemed to blend in nicely, however when I reached the plastic-y stages, that's when the FO separated on its own. Has anyone experience this too? I have not try this FO before, but I used the peppermint one from the same shop with no separation problem like this in a normal soap.

I don't use SB btw, just whisk and spoon. It was on the mold for 24 hours, and then I take it out and put it upside down so that the sides that was inside the mold exposed to the air for around 18 hours before I cut it. It cut like a dream, like very solid tofu. No visible drag mark at all.
 

newbie

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
6,115
Reaction score
5,427
I have no idea. I have used FO's (various) in all my batches without any separation or evaporation like this. Are you certain it was the FO coming out and not water? Did you have any warming in the mold? That can cause some water leakage.

Your soap is beautiful. It doesn't have that intense white I've seen. Do you think that's the honey? Or perhaps it is your Sandalwood FO.
 

btz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
106
Reaction score
47
Yup, it's FO. Because of the color and it behaved ironically like oil in water in the mixture. I forgot to take a pic of that, but it was interesting to see that the fo separated even before I put in in the mold.

The color of the soap is very light caramel, and it's from the honey.
 

seven

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
2,672
Reaction score
1,411
btz, whereabouts are you in indonesia? are you in jakarta?
was wondering if you've ever purchased any FOs locally.
 

btz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
106
Reaction score
47
seven, I'm in Bandung. I had some eo & fo from overseas and also from local chemist shop. Sending you PM with my contact info if you like to talk about it. I only make soap for personal uses though, so my recipe depends on what I can get my hands on :).
 

Obsidian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
9,612
Reaction score
6,849
Location
Idaho, USA
I've been wondering. Has anyone ever rebatched this kind of castile and added SF? I'm rebatching mine today to bring the SF to 5%, regular castile is drying to me so I need to try and make this one at least usable. I did save one piece back to compare.

Its only been 3 weeks or so since I made mine but I tried washing with it today. Its slimy but lathered well. Small bubbles but a lot of them. My skin isn't dry but it feels weird, like there is a film on my skin.

I was quite disappointed in the overall looks, my bars warped and twisted, the sides sunk in. Didn't even really look like soap anymore.
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
12,305
Reaction score
16,857
Location
Northeast Iowa, USA
Obsidian -- I haven't rebatched the superlye castile, but I'm sure it can be done successfully. It might be a challenge to get it grated up however -- got a food processor?

I'm glad I cut my bars a generous size, because they too have shrunk considerably. I still like how they look ... just a little more rustic than the usual soap I make.

My 8 week old homely superlye olive soap is still lathering more freely than a castile made with a more typical recipe. The lather of the superlye soap is looser and more fluffy. The lather from the "normal" castile is more like a lotion and doesn't bubble quite as much. Both soaps like a lot of water to lather their best. Neither of the castiles lather as well as my favorite bath soap recipe made with lard, castor, high oleic safflower, and olive.

The superlye castile does not seem overly drying or lye-heavy to me. There's certainly no zap anymore. I don't have super-sensitive skin either, so what works okay for me might bother someone else.

I will weigh my experimental bars and update my chart in the next few days. I also need to get to work on my lab experiment of tracking the alkalinity over time. Time flies when I'm having fun, I guess.
 
Last edited:
2
Top