Deanna, I have a question...

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newbie

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Have you washed the little white soaps? Are the soaps white or just looking white because they are covered in ash? How weird that you got two colors from the same batch.
 

Obsidian

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I'm coming into this discussion pretty late, I've read quite a bit of the thread but its a lot to go through so I have some questions.

1)Does anyone have the original recipe converted into ounces or grams? I'd like something a bit more precise then quarts.

2)what is rubber ball soap? I seen it mentioned but couldn't find a post that described what it is.

3) for those who add scent, how does it hold up in the long curing process when so much water needs to evaporate? Would EO's or FO's be better?

4) @AnnaMarie besides not being slimy, how is the lather? Does it bubble fairly well? Better then regular castile?

5) What type of OO for a nice white bar? I have regular Kirkland OO but am picking up some pomace when I go shopping.


Thanks in advance for any help:)
 

Robert B

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Hello! This thread was the main reason why I joined this group in the first place. I took notes prior to joining and I do have 2 questions.

1. AnnaMarie indicates that she wraps her soap up tightly in towels after pouring. Other posts had mentioned not to gel it.
a. After pouring the first batch I eventually did put a towel around it (maybe 4 hours later). The next morning there was some liquid on the top. The liquid eventually evaporated or absorbed back into the soap.
b. I did not cover the second batch and there was no liquid on top.
c. So I am trying to understand the difference….what does AnnaMarie achieve that others may not? I do not see gel in either of my cases.
2. This question comes from a new persons perspective. I thought that by pouring and mixing at higher temps (thinking maybe 110-120 F), that helps to achieve trace faster. No? I just remember reading that people do swirl techniques closer to room temp or slightly above to avoid the soap from firming up too much. Assume that there are no fragrance issues accelerating trace.
a. In this case. would it be of benefit to bring the lye solution and the oil/water to, say 120 F when you pour?
 

newbie

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RUbber ball soap is kind of hard to describe. At trace, if the batter has separated/broken up and then been reblended together, the soap will get this slick plastic quality to it. It doesn't stick to the spatula or the bowl really and seems to glide along on a layer of water. I and I think it was AnnaMarie have gotten soaps that were like bread dough, like a ball of dough that you could actually spin around in the bowl on the water layer, almost like a ball bearing. The texture of the soap was rubbery and it was actually difficult to separate into different amounts. For mine, I had to almost cut it into chunks with my spatula and then get the smaller ball of soap into a different container. IT was difficult to mix colorants into because of this rubbery texture. It was pretty strange. That is the rubber ball soap I mention in my posts.

I have never covered any of my batches after trying to CPOP one batch- horrible separation- and letting one start to gel- started to separate and it ruined the soap but parts were salvageable. I believe AM has wrapped her soap but in looks, it doesn't seem to have gelled. I will never try to gel this soap. I don't think it can take the heat because of the emulsion and all the water in it. I have unmolded this soap 2 hours to 24 hours after molding with perfect results.

I have scented all my batches. None of them is terribly old though. I made my first one on Feb 23rd. THe scent is holding fine in all of them, but none has really stood the test of time. Because I would never gel it, I think you could use EO or FO's successfully.

My recollection is that one quart of OO weighs very close to 32 ounces. One quart of water weighs just under 31 ounces. Because of the huge lye excess, huge water excess and the nature of the recipe, which in the old days was done by volume, most of us seem to think that precision weighing is not of paramount importance for this recipe.

I have no idea if AM is achieving a soap that none of the others of us is. I don't think she is because many of us have successfully put together the same ingredients. Part of this thread is about method and what works best, not the recipe.

This soap produces a bubbly lather much much earlier than a normal castile. It also doesn't get slimy nor does the bar itself. If you compare a lye excess bar with a normal castile bar at a year, I don't know if the lather is any different. AM might be the only one who has a bar that age to compare.

Most of us are using Kirkland OO, the regular kind. The bars have been pristine white. I think any brand of OO that is truly OO will give a white bar. I don't use pomace so won't comment on that giving a white bar or not.

This soap takes about an hour to come to a trace under most circumstances. SOme people have mixed slightly warmer than others but because it takes so long to trace, keeping the temps at 120 degrees F might shorten the time, possibly. One question that is unanswered is if a higher temp might cause a problem because you have to make this into an emulsion, which clearly does not tolerate too much heat (gel type heat). I have made this while the bowl feels very very warm and sl hot to my hand and it did trace but I did not take a temp. That whole issue is another one that has been discussed but isn't clear.

This whole thing is quite the experiment and so there are still plenty of unanswered questions.
 
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BTW, this recipe is really about proportions. You make a 1:1 lye water for a -43% SF and use equal weights of oil and water.

DeeAnna posted her recipe on post #40 on page 4 or 5, for reference.

Grayce posted on page 5 or 6 that 1 qt of OO weight 30.98 ounces, but as I said, no one seems to think that absolute precision in water or oil weight will make or break this recipe. You may end up with a -41 or 44% SF which still seems to work.
 
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FlybyStardancer

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1)Does anyone have the original recipe converted into ounces or grams? I'd like something a bit more precise then quarts.
The original recipe is this: You take whatever given amount of OO you want to use (say, 500g). Run it through a lye calculator at -43 superfat. That's the lye amount. Then you have two amounts of water: one that matches the weight of the oil, and one that matches the weight of the lye. You dissolve the lye in the smaller amount of water.

In the original recipe you mix the oil with the larger amount of water before adding the lye water. DeeAnna had better results doing it the other way around--mixing the oil and lye water, then slowly adding in the larger amount of water.

As far as what OO gives a white bar... I think Kirkland does, but I can't say from personal experience. My pure OO trial had milk and honey, so even with TD it's discolored.
 

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Pictures of this batter breaking and then going back together are on page 8 and two more on page 9.
 
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Obsidian

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Thanks for the help, I'll run the amount I want through soapcal and get it all figured out.
 

ilovesoap2

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What was the purpose of this thread again? :)
And wasn't lye -40? I'm so tired I can't even look back.
I love watching this soap drive you'll crazy...in a good way :)
 

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The actual lye discount is -43% but people have tried various amounts from -20 to -43%.

Don't talk to me about this recipe driving me crazy. I don't see an appropriately crazy emoticon to place here.
 

soap_rat

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Among the very weird things about this recipe is: soaping warm does not seem to help. This is what I've been playing around with, as I am a huge fan of adding heat in order to speed trace. Chemistry SAYS that heat speeds chemical reactions, right?? I've never messed with emulsions though (other than making "regular soap)--I haven't made lotions or mayonnaise. Maybe higher heat is detrimental to the type of emulsion we need?

I must admit though, that both batches where I added heat, at some point I heated it up more than I'd planned, which could have been the reason why heating didn't seem to help. Maybe it needs to be done again, keeping it at 120 without going to 140 and above like I did.

Regarding my very white soaps, yes, they are competely covered in ash.
 

krunt

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Hi everyone,

Just an update and recap on what's going on with me and this soap.

I have made 4 batches of this soap now (100% olive oil), the only difference being the lye excess. First batch was -40%, then -10%, -20% & -30%. I wondered whether so much extra lye was necessary to achieve a non-gooey soap.

My -40% batch turned 4 weeks old last week, and I have been using it at the bathroom sink as hand soap for the last 6 days. I am finding it to be a little drying at times, but not excessively so. What I am most excited about, though, is that I am able to use a 100% olive oil soap as frequent-use hand soap! If it had've been made the "normal" way, it would've turned to mush after a day or two. So I know this was the expected outcome, but it's awesome to actually see it in person. I have to work a bit to get a lather going, but I would expect that of a 100% olive oil soap. I'll get a photo later for anyone who might be interested.

I was totally almost ready to give up soap making. I had become so tired of soft, mushy soap. It seemed the only way to get soap that stayed hard was to use high percentages of hard oils. But I didn't want to always have to use high percentages of hard oils. There seemed to be limitations which I feel have been lifted with this method of soap making, and I once again want to thank annamarie for bringing this method to the board.

My -10% batch will be 4 weeks old tomorrow, so I will start using it at the bathroom sink then. Will be interesting to see if it stays hard or turns to mush when used frequently.

I have used extra virgin olive oil for all my batches. The -40% batch turned out off white, there's a hint of colour (yellow) in the -30% batch, and the -20% & -10% batches definitely have colour to them. So even with extra virgin olive oil, you will still get a white bar as long as you use enough lye.
 

AnnaMarie

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Obsidian, the lather for this soap is nice and bubbly and cleansing, but needs water to really get it going (at least that's my experience). I like this recipe better than regular castile because it holds up better and performs better (IMO). I also like that this recipe is traditional and comes from an area that saw the birth of castile soap (unless I'm wrong). I personally stick to the original instructions because the results have been the best. I have gone as low as 32.5% sf with similar results (I was coming up with 38.5% sf on the calculator for the original recipe). My soap from January has been nice and mild.
Robert, it was during the course of my first hand stirred batch that I tried NOT insulating, and the result was no liquid and very little soda ash. I now only stir this recipe and lightly cover it with freezer paper. I love the results.
Ilove2soap, the purpose of this thread was a question I had for DeeAnna on why a lye heavy recipe that broke the rules made a better castile soap (IMO). This thread then took on a life of its own with all of these variations and experiments :)
Krunt, so glad you are loving your soap! I did not like mushy castile either and thought I was doomed to go without it! I was also thinking I shouldn't use my favorite recipe either, but I have tossed that notion aside:)
Cheers!
Anna Marie
 
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vuladams

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I read this entire thread and I have one question:

With such a high lye excess, even though it's neutralized with curing, doesn't it make your skin dry?

Whenever I've made lye excess soaps, I find that my skin gets so dry it gets itchy.

I love the idea of a non-gooey Castile soap so I will be giving this a try!
 

krunt

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Hi again everyone,

Here are a couple of pics of the lather from my -40% soap. As you can see it's not a big and bubbly lather, some may not like that, but I have no problem with it. The lather gets going easily if your hands are already clean.

image.jpg
 

AnnaMarie

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Vuladams,
I have somewhat dry skin myself, but the aged bar of the soap works fine for me, but it is entirely possible that this soap might be too much for someone else. Give it a try and see what you think :)

Krunt, those bubbles might get bigger with age. My bubbles get nice and big, but again, lots of water. :)

Cheers!
Anna Marie
 

krunt

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Vuladams, I am finding the soap a little drying, but it is only 4 weeks old. I am assuming/expecting it will get milder with time. With my "normal" cp soap, I would let it rest for 4 months before I used it, as I found that to be the point where I could really notice a difference. But I just couldn't wait that long for this one. 4 weeks was the best I could do. :smile: and who knows, this one may need even longer than that.

AM, yes, perhaps the bubbles will get bigger, but even if they don't, I'm not too fussed. In the future I will probably try this recipe with a small amount of coconut, for easier lathering.
 

ilovesoap2

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Ilove2soap, the purpose of this thread was a question I had for DeeAnna on why a lye heavy recipe that broke the rules made a better castile soap (IMO). This thread then took on a life of its own with all of these variations and experiments :)
Anna Marie
I'm rather fascinated by you guys and the passion you bring to this craft. I have just never seen anything like it. The love and wanting to know the whys almost flow through my screen. I've seen it in lots of threads here and in blogs :)
 
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