1. We are helping test out a new project for soapmakers. Soapmaking Friend. If you are interested in providing feedback and help guide this project to include all you want to see in a recipe builder and calculator please PM an Admin or post in the Announcements forum. Your feedback is really needed!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice

de-funk de pits

Discussion in 'Bath and Body Forum' started by TeresaT, Jul 30, 2016.

Help Support Soapmaking Forum by donating:

  1. Aug 7, 2018 #501

    Gaisy59

    Gaisy59

    Gaisy59

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    62
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    Ya if you are using the softer babassu it will melt. You guys have amazing heat! And you say the butter is softening but is it liquifying like the oil?
     
  2. Aug 7, 2018 #502

    IrishLass

    IrishLass

    IrishLass

    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    14,061
    Likes Received:
    8,128
    Location:
    Right here, silly!
    I sweat quite freely with mine, but no stink.


    IrishLass :)
     
    Gaisy59 likes this.
  3. Aug 8, 2018 #503

    SoaperForLife

    SoaperForLife

    SoaperForLife

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Mid-Atlantic
    So if you're using the babassu because it is high in lauric acid, why use the mag hydroxide?

    And another question... why not just take one of a bazillion of baking soda/coconut oil deo recipes and just swap out the coconut oil for babassu and use the mag hydroxide instead of baking soda? Obviously the babassu/mag. hydroxide recipe needs tweeking since a lot of people can't make it work the way it is...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2018
  4. Aug 8, 2018 #504

    Dahila

    Dahila

    Dahila

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,367
    Likes Received:
    1,590
    Location:
    Canada, Ontario
    deos with baking soda eventually will cause rash and irritation. Even with very low percentage of baking soda,
     
  5. Aug 8, 2018 #505

    earlene

    earlene

    earlene

    Grandmother & Soaper Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Messages:
    4,626
    Likes Received:
    4,126
    Location:
    Western Illinois, USA
    The magnesium hydroxide is what reduces the body odor.

    Those of us who like the magnesium hydroxide and babassu combination don't find this so horrendous a problem as you seem to think. We are simply working out, though trial and error, combinations of ingredients to solve a minor problem with melt-ability of the product in hot weather. This is no big deal IMO.

    I have no desire to try some other recipe and start over. I am happy with what I have so far, so there is no need to start over from scratch again. I am grateful to TeresaT for doing the necessary footwork to get me to this point. And incidentally, I would suggest that if you read through her earlier posts, she has already addressed that first question you ask in the above post. If not to your satisfaction, then here's one reason I won't go that route. I already have use some of those recipes and hated them. This is much much better (for me.)
     
  6. Aug 8, 2018 #506

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    10,123
    Likes Received:
    13,253
    Location:
    Northeast Iowa, USA
    I agree with Earlene -- we're tweaking for refinement.

    Those baking soda recipes I've seen also show the signs of tweaks. I suspect early versions were just a mix of coconut oil and baking soda. Now they have arrowroot powder, clay, and who knows what. People wanted to refine the recipes to make them less irritating or less likely to melt or whatever, so they added the other stuff.

    Also, babassu (not just lauric acid, because babassu oil is a fat, not a fatty acid) reduces odor. Magnesium hydroxide in water (Milk of Magnesia) also reduces odor. But the combo does even better than the individual ingredients alone. Synergy!
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  7. Aug 9, 2018 #507

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    8,554
    Likes Received:
    6,799
    Location:
    Southern California
    I will say I am amazed with this. Market today was very very hot over 100 I perspired a lot and no stinky at all. I am just going to break down and jar it for summer or a squeeze tube of some kind. I do not want to really tweak the Babassu and Mag anymore so without adding in a wax it is not going to happen in a roll up tube. It is amazing an No irritation at all. Thankyou Theresa, DeeAnna and Irishlass
     
    DeeAnna, Gaisy59 and TeresaT like this.
  8. Aug 9, 2018 #508

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    8,554
    Likes Received:
    6,799
    Location:
    Southern California
    My PKO is starting to liquify and that Never happens. I have not check my coco butter
     
  9. Aug 9, 2018 #509

    TeresaT

    TeresaT

    TeresaT

    I see you. Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    2,450
    Location:
    Chatta-Vegas, TN
    I’m so thrilled that so many people are having such success with this. I sent a sample of the deodorant to a friend in Washington, DC for him to try. It was scented with cmzaha’s Dragon’s Blood FO, which smells amazing and has great all day staying power at just 2% total weight. I’m going to knock it down to 1% next time because I forgot how strong DB is when I threw it together for him.

    I started this voyage because I researched the difference between babassu and coconut oils. They are pretty much interchangeable as far as making soap and deodorant (and cooking) are concerned. However, the benefits that babassu has over coconut are the natural anti microbial quality of the oil, the quicker absorption yielding a less greasy feeling on the skin, and (most important for some) non-staining. After that discovery, it was just a matter of finding a recipe that works for you. I tried just babassu, babassu with anti microbial essential oils, babassu with neem oil and a few other recipes, including various recipes with clay, diatomaceous earth and baking soda. Irish Lass hit on the magnesium hydroxide (which I had never heard of) and after trying that, I discovered it was the best combination for odor fighting for me. It does not eliminate odor for me 100%, but it’s as good as, if not better than, commercial products without plugging my sweat glands. (I have noticed if I take prebiotic supplements daily, then I have no body odor. My body odor is 100% related to my gut health. I need to go back to taking prebiotic supplements and build up healthy gut flora.) I hope this helps explain a bit. I’m not a scientist. It had nothing to do with the fatty acid compounds in the oil, but the info I found about anti microbial qualities.
     
    cmzaha likes this.
  10. Aug 9, 2018 #510

    redhead1226

    redhead1226

    redhead1226

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    399
    Location:
    Miami, Florida
    I use candellia wax and e-wax as Im in Florida and it wont stay solid otherwise.
     
  11. Aug 9, 2018 #511

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    8,554
    Likes Received:
    6,799
    Location:
    Southern California
    I am just now going to make a small test using candelilla with soft and silky emulsifier. May I ask what percentage of candelilla you use?
     
  12. Aug 9, 2018 #512

    BattleGnome

    BattleGnome

    BattleGnome

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,267
    Likes Received:
    955
    If it helps, I tried 5% beeswax (taken from the babassu) and ended up with a very brittle result. It would have probably worked in a tube but I’ve been experimenting with a silicone cupcake mold.

    I don’t know if candelilla will have the same result but the beeswax also clogged my pores. I ended up with non irritating bumps under my arms that cleared up quickly when I started using steric instead. YMMV
     
    Dahila likes this.
  13. Aug 9, 2018 #513

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    8,554
    Likes Received:
    6,799
    Location:
    Southern California
    I am going to use 1% wax. I tried 3% and it was much to hard would not glide at all
     
  14. Aug 9, 2018 #514

    SoaperForLife

    SoaperForLife

    SoaperForLife

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Mid-Atlantic
    Earlene wrote "Those of us who like the magnesium hydroxide and babassu combination don't find this so horrendous a problem as you seem to think. We are simply working out, though trial and error, combinations of ingredients to solve a minor problem with melt-ability of the product in hot weather. This is no big deal IMO".

    Sure it's like a witches brew where you throw in a little bit of this and a little bit of that - I get it. I've formulated my share of products over the years and am familiar with the procedure. Just be aware that it is easy to go back and forth with ingredients, trying to balance hard with soft in a recipe and you end up with a whole long list of raw materials.

    Then Earlene wrote "I have no desire to try some other recipe and start over. I am happy with what I have so far, so there is no need to start over from scratch again. I am grateful to TeresaT for doing the necessary footwork to get me to this point. And incidentally, I would suggest that if you read through her earlier posts, she has already addressed that first question you ask in the above post. If not to your satisfaction, then here's one reason I won't go that route. I already have use some of those recipes and hated them. This is much much better (for me.)"

    Obviously the babassu that some of the forum members are using doesn't stay solid for them and (to them) it is a problem and so they are adding this and that trying to come up with something that works for them. If my question offended you so much you could have ignored it Earlene.

     
  15. Aug 9, 2018 #515

    Dahila

    Dahila

    Dahila

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,367
    Likes Received:
    1,590
    Location:
    Canada, Ontario
    you need to use combination of few ingredients, it stay solid and we have temps up to 100F or 40 celsius, I pack mine into tubes and have very good results, Feedback from my customers is very good. Teresa gave us starting point but after tweaking it for months I got what I want , works perfect . Why I read criticism from you post? Do I read it right or not.
     
  16. Aug 9, 2018 #516

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    10,123
    Likes Received:
    13,253
    Location:
    Northeast Iowa, USA
    "... If my question offended you so much you could have ignored it Earlene. ..."

    @SoaperForLife -- Hmm. If you see any offense in Earlene's reply, then I can only conclude you have been having a bad day and are more inclined to see offense where none was intended. From my perspective, Earlene's response to your questions was a calm, factual, and thoughtful reply that took a fair bit of time to think about and write.

    Please reconsider your criticism of Earlene -- I think your conclusion is misplaced.
     
  17. Aug 10, 2018 #517

    SoaperForLife

    SoaperForLife

    SoaperForLife

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Mid-Atlantic
    To further explore my hypothesis regarding the effects of homemade deodorant I decided to not apply any yesterday as a test. I have been using artisanal deodorant for probably two years now. Occasionally I will use a commercial product if I am working a craft show or attending a function where I don't want to sweat but 99 percent of the time it is my homemade one. If you remember from an earlier post, I had mentioned a study where they determined that antiperspirant usage led to an increase in odor-producing bacteria. It was in the low 80's yesterday with sun so perfect weather for this..... I shoveled up 6 wheelbarrow loads of manure from our equine loafing area and distributed them in a nearby paddock. I weeded a bit in the herb garden and then did some work inside. Around 5:30 in the afternoon I took a 3.5 mile hike up and down and around the neighborhood. At no time did I notice any body odor. If I had been wearing the homemade deodorant I would have attributed the lack of odor to the product but I wasn't.... I would be curious to see if some of you who have been wearing homemade deodorant for a long time would try going without for a day and see what happens....
     
  18. Aug 10, 2018 #518

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    8,554
    Likes Received:
    6,799
    Location:
    Southern California
    Might have to concede to the fact these are not going to keep from melting in tubes. :( Tried again with 2% candelilla wax leaving out the IPM and they still melted
     
    LiLiSoapz likes this.
  19. Aug 10, 2018 #519

    Gaisy59

    Gaisy59

    Gaisy59

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    62
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    As much as it is frustrating i have taken the positives out of everything. The babassu butter may be more expensive but it does last longer and is good for travelling as it is a higher melting point. I have to use a hair dryer to start it but that is fine. The babassu oil glides better for everyday use and if i have to keep it in the fridge during hot days so be it. But i can put it into a tube and it works great.

    My recipe is the simplest at 50:50. I do not have stained clothes. Ido not have body stink. I do not have burned pits like i do from baking soda. I Do Not Have Clogged Pits because i still sweat freely.

    People...this works and i find that the conversations are getting too stressed out and complicated. Keep it simple :nodding: and enjoy the ingredients discovered by Theresa and company.
     
    LiLiSoapz, TeresaT and IrishLass like this.
  20. Aug 10, 2018 #520

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    10,123
    Likes Received:
    13,253
    Location:
    Northeast Iowa, USA
    I can appreciate where you're coming from @Gaisy59 and I regret that you find our discussion of tweaks to be stressful.

    But I have to say I don't see anything inappropriate about discussing adjustments to a formulation to make the product meet the needs of a wider group of people. Teresa's original recipe (babassu with clay) in this thread was a tweak of other people's ideas. The idea of using magnesium hydroxide was a "tweak" of T's recipe that was suggested by Irish Lass. The combination of babassu and mag hydroxide is thus an amalgam of tweaks.

    Given how this idea came about, I don't know that anyone can draw a line in the sand and say the "original idea" for this deo is on one side of the line and all "tweaks" are on the other. I agree you can argue a 2 ingredient formulation is really simple and adding ingredients to increase the glidy-ness and melt temperature is adding complexity. But if the added complexity also adds usefulness and pleasantness to the product so it pleases a wider group of people, I see that as a positive thing.

    Look at general soap making and all the crazy things people add to soap or do to soap. I think a fair bit of it is silly, but I can see people are having fun, so I generally don't say much if I think there is no harm in what they're doing. I see the discussion here in much the same vein -- people are having fun, the tweaks are hopefully helping the basic formulation work better for more people, and the results are not harmful as best we can see.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
    LiLiSoapz, IrishLass and redhead1226 like this.

Share This Page