Curing or drying?

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Chris_S

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Hi i was just wondering what everyone thinks about these screenshots, i was shocked that he corrected me im not pretending to be an expert but in over 2 years of soap making iv never come across this. I stopped myself from straight up telling him hes wrong πŸ™ˆπŸ™ˆ because really it is drying time but why the hell would someone teaching soap making expect people to understand things differently to how everyone else seems to even a google search doesnt agree with his idea of curing. Surely beginners will benifit from not being taught the opposite to what the common terminology is that would be like someone in america teach english style english not american english it doesnt translate into the real word and would just confuse the hell outta people surely? Its just going to make them need more help. Maybe im missing something here but given a cosmetic chemist calls it curing then its surely curing and not simply drying?

Also Iv been talking to someone from the group and shes thinking about doing a candle making course for 500 quid claimed to be worth 2.5k pounds πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ because she cant afford to make mistakes πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ i tried to explain to her the nature of candle making means that you still have to do testing regatdlss and she might aswell spend 200 quid of wax and fragrance oils and wicks and be 300 better off i honestly dont know how people can give that much money away its just shocking too maybe its just me but if i was going to teach about making candles i wouldnt be charging anything like that much. I could teach someone over fb messenger and give them the basics to get them started. Heck i did that with someone with melts and shes doing lots of business and didnt need to do as much testing because i walked her through in baby steps and didnt charge a single penny πŸ™ˆπŸ™ˆ and shes not the brightest either. For me nothing beats trial and error and test test test whether its candles or soaps they need testing regardless of if someone teaches you for 2 hours or 24 over a few weeks you would still need to test the candles because theres no way they can test every size candle wick wax and fragrance availble on the marlet
 

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lenarenee

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Deanna explains what true curing does - and does it beautifully. In short, soap is a crystalline structure substance. During the cure, the molecules of (water, glycerin, salts - I believe....eager to be corrected it needed), move around (for some reason). The pH lowers, and yes water evaporates.

Let me see if I can find DeeAnna's link to her website.... ETA: Yup! Found it! Soapy Stuff: Curing soap

If you wish to educate this man (considering how he worded things, he might be open to learning something new), you can also reference the college Textbook that's now offered mainstream on Amazon; Scientific Soap Making, by Kevin Dunn. I have the book (somewhere) and may be able to tell you what chapter also explains what curing is.
 

Chris_S

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Yes i realise this is the case but hes trying to say that curing is only the time it takes to get the sopification to be finished and the rest is purely drying time! I know theres chemical reactions going on but he is using term thats out the norm and just feel like should a beginner listen to his explination then say google it, it would do nothing but to confuse the hell out of the new soaper. I know i would be confused if i didnt already understand it! The person asking the question was at least from the way i read it asking about curing known in the common way by the majority of people otherwise why else could she not be bothered waiting for the cp soap to cure. Just dont think its a very professional way of teaching complete beginners really πŸ™ˆπŸ™ˆ maybe its me and im missing something ill hold my hands up if i am wrong im not an expert far from it but in over 2 years of soaping this is the first time its ever been described and called this!
 

IrishLass

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Right here, silly!
He's confusing saponification with cure (a misunderstanding that many folks tend to fall into). The needed time for the oils to finish saponifying (turning into soap) is called........wait for it........ "saponification" (no mystery there! :) ) Cure is a different process. Drying is part of the curing process, but it's not the totality of the curing process, which also includes developing a crystaline structure, etc....

Here's a post by DeeAnna explaining what goes on during cure:



IrishLass :)
 

Chris_S

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So...are you asking what you should do?
No lol i wanted an opinion on what was said, he can do what he wants just find it very unprofessional that he doesnt even seem to understand what curing is when hes charging probably hundreds of pounds to teach people the wrong terminology and ultimately probably confuse the hell outta people. I was trying to work out if he was wrong mostly. Hes the admin on the group and the one teaching soap making im probably gunna leave the group because i cant be doing with people trying to tell me im wrong when i know im not i might screen shot deannas post and tag him and just leave it at that leave him with the proof that what i said wasnt incorrect πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ probably go down like a sinking ship but hey ho lol

Yes this is what iv said to the person who asked the question and hes basically shot me down and said im wrong πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈπŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ and that what im referring to as cure is actually what they call drying time well yes it is drying but as you said irish lass its not just drying time so clearly calling it drying time isnt stating what is actually happening and calling sopification curing is indeed incorrect πŸ™ˆπŸ™ˆ.

@IrishLass and @lenarenee thank you 😁😁
 

amd

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I agree with IL's comments as well... he seems to have terms confused, not just to when he applies them, but to what actually happens in those processes. I would leave this group posthaste and not look back. I find most FB soapmaking groups to be a waste of my time and have left them (or... ahem... been kicked out for trying to correct people) and focus my attention on this forum. Added bonus that everyone is so much nicer here.
 

Chris_S

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I agree with IL's comments as well... he seems to have terms confused, not just to when he applies them, but to what actually happens in those processes. I would leave this group posthaste and not look back. I find most FB soapmaking groups to be a waste of my time and have left them (or... ahem... been kicked out for trying to correct people) and focus my attention on this forum. Added bonus that everyone is so much nicer here.
Hahahaha i posted a screen shot of the formentioned post explaining whatthe actual scientific processes are and told him by saying im not correct hes basically saying that a cosmetic chemist who is highly regarded and very professional and has intelligence and knowledge of cosmetics he could only dream of, is also incorrect πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ i then left the group after saying i hope he has fun scamming people into handing over money for him to teach them stuff that isnt even scientifically correct πŸ™ˆπŸ™ˆ then i went out and got some much needed gardening done as its cooled down this evening.

Hope you're keeping ok @amd iv not really been on the forum for a while but i will ALWAYS remember the amazing kindness you showed when you sent my friend those soaps πŸ₯°πŸ₯°πŸ₯°πŸ₯°πŸ₯°πŸ₯° Unfortunately i lost contact with her because my phone broke and wouldnt let me log in to the account i used to talk to her 😭😭 and she had moved out that house last time i spoke to her so i dont know anyway to recontact her ☹☹ im really getting back into my soaping again now so ill probably be around on the forum more 😁😁
 

lenarenee

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No lol i wanted an opinion on what was said, he can do what he wants just find it very unprofessional that he doesnt even seem to understand what curing is when hes charging probably hundreds of pounds to teach people the wrong terminology and ultimately probably confuse the hell outta people. I was trying to work out if he was wrong mostly. Hes the admin on the group and the one teaching soap making im probably gunna leave the group because i cant be doing with people trying to tell me im wrong when i know im not i might screen shot deannas post and tag him and just leave it at that leave him with the proof that what i said wasnt incorrect πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ probably go down like a sinking ship but hey ho lol

Yes this is what iv said to the person who asked the question and hes basically shot me down and said im wrong πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈπŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ and that what im referring to as cure is actually what they call drying time well yes it is drying but as you said irish lass its not just drying time so clearly calling it drying time isnt stating what is actually happening and calling sopification curing is indeed incorrect πŸ™ˆπŸ™ˆ.

@IrishLass and @lenarenee thank you 😁😁
It's a tough spot to be in when someone you know is wrong tells you you're the one in the wrong! People are paying money for his knowledge; he *should* be open to learning when he's wrong. Right now, he believes he's right - and "corrected" you to the best of his knowledge. But...!

And yes, AMD is a keeper!
 
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Chris_S

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It's a tough spot to be in when someone you know is wrong tells you you're the one in the wrong! People are paying money for his knowledge; he *should* be open to learning when he's wrong. Right now, he believes he's right - and "corrected" you to the best of his knowledge. But...!

And yes, AMD is a keeper!
I didnt know him as such i just was a member in his group i know enough now to know hes an idiot but hey ho! Iv said much worse than i did to him to people to get a point across when i know iv been in the right πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

Iv self taught and learnt by reading and asking questions to some very very intelligent and knowledgeable people within the soaping community and im no scientist but i understand that science is how things happen and what he was saying was no science based but yes your are right he should be willing to put his hands up and say when hes wrong especially when its in a professional position like he claims he is!

Shes amazing isnt she proper heart of gold that one 😁😁
 

amd

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i then left the group after saying i hope he has fun scamming people into handing over money for him to teach them stuff that isnt even scientifically correct πŸ™ˆπŸ™ˆ then i went out and got some much needed gardening done as its cooled down this evening.
Hahaha I'm sure your comments were deleted but hopefully enough people saw it that questions are being asked. I give classes occasionally, and they've always been to people who have used my soap - not because they want to learn to make my soap and steal my business, but because they know they'll be getting good soap and worth the money. I would never take a class from someone's whose products I had never tried. There's a local chef here who does cooking classes, but for my taste his food is terrible, so I will never take his class. Why the heck would I want to make food I don't like?

Hope you're keeping ok
Things were crazy for a bit with the sudden shut down of schools, and rearranging work to be at home... and just figuring out the new normal. I've missed your posts around here. Sorry to hear that you lost contact with your friend, it was my pleasure to be able to surprise someone with soap. It's one of my favorite things to do... right after making soap, and drinking a good pint of beer.

Shes amazing isnt she proper heart of gold that one
who occasionally puts her foot in her mouth or gets too feisty for her own good, haha. Gosh thanks both of you @lenarenee
 

melinda48

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No lol i wanted an opinion on what was said, he can do what he wants just find it very unprofessional that he doesnt even seem to understand what curing is when hes charging probably hundreds of pounds to teach people the wrong terminology and ultimately probably confuse the hell outta people. I was trying to work out if he was wrong mostly. Hes the admin on the group and the one teaching soap making im probably gunna leave the group because i cant be doing with people trying to tell me im wrong when i know im not i might screen shot deannas post and tag him and just leave it at that leave him with the proof that what i said wasnt incorrect πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ probably go down like a sinking ship but hey ho lol

Yes this is what iv said to the person who asked the question and hes basically shot me down and said im wrong πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈπŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ and that what im referring to as cure is actually what they call drying time well yes it is drying but as you said irish lass its not just drying time so clearly calling it drying time isnt stating what is actually happening and calling sopification curing is indeed incorrect πŸ™ˆπŸ™ˆ.

@IrishLass and @lenarenee thank you 😁😁
Have you contacted him privately to provide the information? It may be better to do so rather than trying to β€œout him” publicly. No one takes very well to being publicly embarrassed. I would contact him through Messenger and provide your rationale.
 

Chris_S

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Have you contacted him privately to provide the information? It may be better to do so rather than trying to β€œout him” publicly. No one takes very well to being publicly embarrassed. I would contact him through Messenger and provide your rationale.
Bit late now lol already sent the message the night i posted this, I knew i was going to leave the group anyways so i posted it then just left because i would of got booted anyways if i had stayed. I wasn't being told i was wrong by someone who doesn't know his arse from his elbow when it comes to something hes apparently meant to know enough about to teach people, without calling him out publicly when he had been rude and called me out for being wrong when i was actually right
 
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