Cure time for coconut oil soap

[Basil]

I have a friend who’s daughter and son in law make soap and they told me they use a recipe they got somewhere that’s all coconut oil . Her daughter, Amber, said they use a high super fat with it. It’s all they’ve made . She sells it to co workers and family and friends and says people love it because it cleaning and it’s a hard soap. She also said that it doesn’t need to cure long because of that. I learned she’s made some and sold it the next day…. I’ve talked with her about cure times etc. but I don’t think she believes her soap needs it. So, I recently sent her the article ( @DeeAnna ) from classic bells about cure time. Hopefully it’ll help. Has anyone heard this about coconut oil soap? I don’t know where she got that information.
Thanks in advance .

 

[ResolvableOwl]

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/100-coconut-oil-20-sf-cp.86195/
Pure CO soap is special in many ways (needs super high SF to not be too stripping, hard but readily soluble, even in hard/salty water, high SAP, heating/cracking/volcano danger, setting time in the mould…). Different enough from soaps with conventional oil blends that all experiences aren't automatically applicable 1:1 there.

Technically speaking, this does include cure times: when you have good experiences with 6+ weeks of cure in a basic-trinity recipe, this doesn't help you much to estimate cure times for a 100%CO soap. BUT this does NOT mean that cure is obsolete altogether.
Currently no sound experiences with these 100%CO+20%SF bars per se come to my mind, but there is ample of reports from salt bars (that have the same soap recipe, just salt added) that need to cure much longer than the average trinity bar, and are barely starting to be usable after 6 months. Just as a time frame what to expect from a closely related recipe.

FWIW, giving away soaps one day after making has so much many more disadvantages (evaporation losses/sensitivity to air moisture, warping, colour/scent morphing, cracks, sub-par lathering, rapid dissolving …) that it's not worth aiming at anyway, even if harshness issues of young soap were no issue. This practice sounds questionable to me (but then, there are many things that I'd consider inappropriate, but people still do them and nobody complains).

 

[TheGecko]

Is it HP or CP? If it’s HP a lot of folks (including myself) assume because HP soap is ‘done’ in just a few hours versus CP which takes a couple of days, that it doesn’t need to be cured. That once it cools down in the mold, you cut, wrap and sell. The ONLY soap that you can do that with is Melt & Pour and Rebatched cured soap.

If it’s CP…it’s the nature of the oil to harden more quickly. The physical hardness of the bar has nothing with whether soap is safe or ready to be sold. In CP, saponification takes a good 48 hours…yeah, you can often unmold it, depending recipe, in 12 to 24 hours, but it’s going to be some pretty harsh soap. I made some Rainbow soap a few weeks ago…cavity molds, unmolded in 18 hours…hard as a rock. Went ahead and tested one of the bars…was curious if the colors would run. My hands were so dry afterwards and I only used the soap for less than a minute.

When it comes to ‘cleaning’…the only thing you want ‘squeaky clean’ is your dishes and pots/pans. If you skin squeaks, if your hair squeaks…it means that you have stripped both of all its natural oils. Eventually both are going to start drying out and then the body is going to start producing more oils. It’s the same thing that happens with you use too much lotion/moisturizer, your body starts producing less oils. In both cases, you are compounding the problem.

Curing soap does two things: 1) via water evaporation, you produce a longer lasting bar of soap. 2) as soap cures, it becomes milder. There is all this science thing going on a molecular level forming crystals and chains and singing and dancing and having a super good time. I have a bar of goat milk soap that is probably close to 15 years old…found it in the back of a drawer a couple of years ago. It is so incredibly mild and soapy and creamy. It’s my ‘special occasion’ soap and the reason why I wanted to learn how to make soap.

I’d tell your friend that you hope that her daughter and SIL have product liability insurance because someone is going to eventually get hurt and sue them because they are more interested in making money than in selling a safe product.

 

[Basil]

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/100-coconut-oil-20-sf-cp.86195/
Pure CO soap is special in many ways (needs super high SF to not be too stripping, hard but readily soluble, even in hard/salty water, high SAP, heating/cracking/volcano danger, setting time in the mould…). Different enough from soaps with conventional oil blends that all experiences aren't automatically applicable 1:1 there.

Technically speaking, this does include cure times: when you have good experiences with 6+ weeks of cure in a basic-trinity recipe, this doesn't help you much to estimate cure times for a 100%CO soap. BUT this does NOT mean that cure is obsolete altogether.
Currently no sound experiences with these 100%CO+20%SF bars per se come to my mind, but there is ample of reports from salt bars (that have the same soap recipe, just salt added) that need to cure much longer than the average trinity bar, and are barely starting to be usable after 6 months. Just as a time frame what to expect from a closely related recipe.

FWIW, giving away soaps one day after making has so much many more disadvantages (evaporation losses/sensitivity to air moisture, warping, colour/scent morphing, cracks, sub-par lathering, rapid dissolving …) that it's not worth aiming at anyway, even if harshness issues of young soap were no issue. This practice sounds questionable to me (but then, there are many things that I'd consider inappropriate, but people still do them and nobody complains).

Thank you owl. Yes , I wasn’t clear in my post about what I meant . I haven’t made 100% coconut oil soap yet with the extra superfat, but I did know about that part and I’d like to sometimes . What I wasn’t clear on, I’d not heard it cured faster. I appreciate your response! Thank you!

Is it HP or CP? If it’s HP a lot of folks (including myself) assume because HP soap is ‘done’ in just a few hours versus CP which takes a couple of days, that it doesn’t need to be cured. That once it cools down in the mold, you cut, wrap and sell. The ONLY soap that you can do that with is Melt & Pour and Rebatched cured soap.

If it’s CP…it’s the nature of the oil to harden more quickly. The physical hardness of the bar has nothing with whether soap is safe or ready to be sold. In CP, saponification takes a good 48 hours…yeah, you can often unmold it, depending recipe, in 12 to 24 hours, but it’s going to be some pretty harsh soap. I made some Rainbow soap a few weeks ago…cavity molds, unmolded in 18 hours…hard as a rock. Went ahead and tested one of the bars…was curious if the colors would run. My hands were so dry afterwards and I only used the soap for less than a minute.

When it comes to ‘cleaning’…the only thing you want ‘squeaky clean’ is your dishes and pots/pans. If you skin squeaks, if your hair squeaks…it means that you have stripped both of all its natural oils. Eventually both are going to start drying out and then the body is going to start producing more oils. It’s the same thing that happens with you use too much lotion/moisturizer, your body starts producing less oils. In both cases, you are compounding the problem.

Curing soap does two things: 1) via water evaporation, you produce a longer lasting bar of soap. 2) as soap cures, it becomes milder. There is all this science thing going on a molecular level forming crystals and chains and singing and dancing and having a super good time. I have a bar of goat milk soap that is probably close to 15 years old…found it in the back of a drawer a couple of years ago. It is so incredibly mild and soapy and creamy. It’s my ‘special occasion’ soap and the reason why I wanted to learn how to make soap.

I’d tell your friend that you hope that her daughter and SIL have product liability insurance because someone is going to eventually get hurt and sue them because they are more interested in making money than in selling a safe product.

Thank you Gecko! I’m not crazy then . ( that’s not really an open invite ) She says everyone likes her soap because it leaves them feeling “squeaky” and she says it sells better for that reason. Her husband says people “ don’t like to buy soap like mine because they don’t feel clean when they get out of the shower” I have a well balanced soap recipe that I’ve worked hard to get reading this forum almost everyday and learning. I was blown away she said that but was like uhhhhhhh ok… I appreciate your response.
Thank you! Oh and it’s CP…

 

[Nona'sFarm]

Thank you Gecko! I’m not crazy then . ( that’s not really an open invite ) She says everyone likes her soap because it leaves them feeling “squeaky” and she says it sells better for that reason. Her husband says people “ don’t like to buy soap like mine because they don’t feel clean when they get out of the shower” I have a well balanced soap recipe that I’ve worked hard to get reading this forum almost everyday and learning. I was blown away she said that but was like uhhhhhhh ok… I appreciate your response.
Thank you! Oh and it’s CP…

I personally believe how you want your skin to feel after bathing is a personal preference. Some like squeaky clean but I like my skin to feel soft and not dried out. So I wouldn't worry about that comment. You can pass on what you know about cure time, but I have a feeling it will fall on deaf ears. You can lead a horse to water...

 

[AliOop]

My guess is that she found the recipe on a blog like this one:

https://mommypotamus.com/how-to-make-pure-coconut-oil-soap-for-cleansing-and-laundry/
That's the recipe I made for many years. Used it on my body and hair - worked great for me. Worked well for my husband for a few years, and then it started drying out his scalp.

The problem is that people read blogs like this and don't realize that there is a lot more to soapmaking than what a single blog post can tell you. And while I actually like and respect the writer of that blog for her in-depth research on many topics, and her dedication to sharing medical studies, etc., she definitely went "lite" on the soapmaking stuff.

For someone who is selling fresh HP soap of any kind, the best you can do is remind them that uncured soap will dissolve very quickly, and can also get mushy. And point them to a few soapmaking sites that confirm this. It's up to them to take it from there.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

I personally believe how you want your skin to feel after bathing is a personal preference. Some like squeaky clean

This is likely true. But what if you like the squeaky skin feel you got from a young soap, you then stock up with that soap – just to notice that over the weeks and months it gets milder and “looses its squeakiness” … not so great. This alone: inconsistent behaviour over the time the soap is at the customer: is reason enough to not sell/give away uncured soap, IMHO.

 

[TheGecko]

I personally believe how you want your skin to feel after bathing is a personal preference. Some like squeaky clean but I like my skin to feel soft and not dried out. So I wouldn't worry about that comment. You can pass on what you know about cure time, but I have a feeling it will fall on deaf ears. You can lead a horse to water...

I agree about personal preference, but we're talking about freshly made CP soap: "she’s made some and sold it the next day". While we know that we can, depending on the recipe, unmold soap on the average of 18 - 24 hours (less for 100% Coconut Oil or Salt Soap), the saponification process can take a good 48 hours to complete. It's why a lot of soap makers who unmold and cut at 18 - 24 hours wear gloves...it's not just about hygiene or fingerprints, it's about there still being active lye in the soap.

And I agree about the 'deaf ears'...those comments come from people who are only interested in making money.

 

[Ladka]

And I agree about the 'deaf ears'...those comments come from people who are only interested in making money.

As known to any soapmaker most of fresh soap lose much water during the first few days. So if the OP sells soap the next day they also sell much water for the price of soap.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

Just to be clear, I was trying to address the comment about people preferring squeaky clean skin, not the age of the soap. I agree 100% that it should be cured properly before using and what they're doing is potentially dangerous. But my point was that all @Basil could do was give them information, she can't control their actions.

 

[mobe_45]

I have a friend who’s daughter and son in law make soap and they told me they use a recipe they got somewhere that’s all coconut oil . Her daughter, Amber, said they use a high super fat with it. It’s all they’ve made . She sells it to co workers and family and friends and says people love it because it cleaning and it’s a hard soap. She also said that it doesn’t need to cure long because of that. I learned she’s made some and sold it the next day…. I’ve talked with her about cure times etc. but I don’t think she believes her soap needs it. So, I recently sent her the article ( @DeeAnna ) from classic bells about cure time. Hopefully it’ll help. Has anyone heard this about coconut oil soap? I don’t know where she got that information.
Thanks in advance .

Many think that once a soap is hard, it’s cured. That’s not the case. Your friends daughter is hurting herself by selling uncured soaps.