Crumbly Soap Needing Help

[Ara Mo]

Trying my hands of testing new recipes, though the edges were very crumbly looking. And touching the soap it has a chalky feeling. Though my hands did not get burn. Tested a small piece relatively safe to use.

If ignoring the design patterns (the design was less than ideal as relatively new with trying technique) the soap is very crumbly. Anything I could improve on the hardness? I did unmold the soap after 48 hours.

 

[WhittanyWho]

You can increase the SF a little. Yours is at 3%, but increasing it to 5-7% could help. I’ve had edges like that on ungelled soap too. Did yours gel?

 

[AliOop]

Can you tell us what additives you included? I’m pretty sure you added some TD and/or kaolin clay, both of which can make your soap crumbly or chalky if used in excess. Other possible culprits are too much sodium lactate, and pouring at a very thin (possibly unstable) emulsion.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I find that gelling my soap is the best way to stop crumbly edges.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Based on the somewhat diffuse look of the blue and green portions of the soap, my guess is a thin emulsion. Try stick blending just a little longer, or stick blend as you have been and then let the batter sit for a few minutes until you’re sure the emulsion is stable. You could also try using less water. If you set the lye concentration to something like 31% - 33%, you should still have plenty of working time and the soap won’t take as long to firm up.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

For a conditioning, more balanced, harder bar with good lather, try

Coconut 25%
Olive Oil 30%
Shea Butter 40%
Castor 5%

High % of shea butter makes lovely soap.

 

[Ara Mo]

You can increase the SF a little. Yours is at 3%, but increasing it to 5-7% could help. I’ve had edges like that on ungelled soap too. Did yours gel?

Thank you for the feedback.

For this soap batch no didn't really gel. Though I did cover my mold inside a wooden box with a cover top. Any idea how else do I force gel? Does my country's humid and high heat cause any effect? Would like to try that in my next soap batch.

I add Titanium Dioxide for the white and the blue and green color i added Mica powder. Though i do find the coloring to be much lighter than I envision. I even added Sage + Sea salt fragrance.

Yes, I didn't over trace the batter, since I wanted to be able to cleanly get the batter off my utensils. (Reduce the ants from swarming my batter). Though in hindsight I should have leave it thicker for better dramatic designs,

 

[Ara Mo]

For a conditioning, more balanced, harder bar with good lather, try

Coconut 25%
Olive Oil 30%
Shea Butter 40%
Castor 5%

High % of shea butter makes lovely soap.

Thank you . I would like to try out this ratio and see how it goes in my next soap.

 

[AliOop]

Thank you for the feedback.

For this soap batch no didn't really gel. Though I did cover my mold inside a wooden box with a cover top. Any idea how else do I force gel? Does my country's humid and high heat cause any effect? Would like to try that in my next soap batch.

I add Titanium Dioxide for the white and the blue and green color i added Mica powder. Though i do find the coloring to be much lighter than I envision. I even added Sage + Sea salt fragrance.

Yes, I didn't over trace the batter, since I wanted to be able to cleanly get the batter off my utensils. (Reduce the ants from swarming my batter). Though in hindsight I should have leave it thicker for better dramatic designs,

Since you tested the soap and it isn't lye heavy, increasing the superfat isn't necessary. My best guess is that the crumbly edges and chalky feeling come from a combination of perhaps too much titanium dioxide, and not bringing the soap to a more stable emulsion. If you also want to try gelling the soap, if you live in a high heat area, you can probably just insulate the soap with a towel or overturned box for a few hours. I'd recommend checking on it every couple of hours to make sure it isn't overheating and cracking, and that it is gelling.

 

[squarepancakes]

Thank you for the feedback.

For this soap batch no didn't really gel. Though I did cover my mold inside a wooden box with a cover top. Any idea how else do I force gel? Does my country's humid and high heat cause any effect? Would like to try that in my next soap batch.

I add Titanium Dioxide for the white and the blue and green color i added Mica powder. Though i do find the coloring to be much lighter than I envision. I even added Sage + Sea salt fragrance.

Yes, I didn't over trace the batter, since I wanted to be able to cleanly get the batter off my utensils. (Reduce the ants from swarming my batter). Though in hindsight I should have leave it thicker for better dramatic designs,

Hello neighbour, I actually had a batch that looked similar recently. It was my stable recipe and the only difference was likely that I did not blend it enough (I sometimes pour at emulsion, never had an issue except that day) + mixed at too low a temp. I normally mix my oils + lye at around 45-50 degrees, that day I mixed at around 42 as I was a bit too frantic working on some stuff and missed the timing. If I soap at a lower temp like 40, I normally blend longer, but again, I was in a rush that day and made a mistake while working.

Also, you might want to check if your fragrance is CP soap safe. I noticed that unless you buy from reputable sellers eg soap lab, they dont really know much about the fragrances.

As for your question on forcing gel, most places will suggest CPOP, but tbh, with our weather, you dont need to. If you want to force gel, you can do so by just soaping at a high enough temp, store the soap in a styrofoam box with a blanket or hot water bottles. The humidity's main effect from my experience, is mainly in the unmolding. Depending on the weather the days after soaping, if its warm and humid and you used a high amount of water, the loaf might feel tacky when unmolded. Not an issue and it'll resolve itself once you start curing it.

 

[earlene]

I'd try the other formula, AND soap a bit warmer to start with. Not a lot warmer, but with the recipe you used and with that much water, I would have expected it to heat up enough to gel in your environment with the insulation you used.

I have gelled soap in hot weather outside and well covered. Since you have an ant problem, perhaps adding an extra layer of protection that also keeps the heat inside the soap would be helpful. Some folks here at SMF put their freshly molded soap into an insulated container like used for keeping food or drinks in (styrofoam or other material, often called 'coolers' in the US, but not sure about what they are called in Malaysia.) That type of container should keep the ants out of your soap while it encourages gel.

As far as the crumbly edges, I have found that it may or may not go away over time. If it doesn't, you can still use the soap as is or you can cut the outer crumbly areas away; that is entirely your call. I went ahead and used the soap when this happened to me. In use the crumbly bits wore away and the rest of the bar was fine.

 

[Ara Mo]

Hello neighbour, I actually had a batch that looked similar recently. It was my stable recipe and the only difference was likely that I did not blend it enough (I sometimes pour at emulsion, never had an issue except that day) + mixed at too low a temp. I normally mix my oils + lye at around 45-50 degrees, that day I mixed at around 42 as I was a bit too frantic working on some stuff and missed the timing. If I soap at a lower temp like 40, I normally blend longer, but again, I was in a rush that day and made a mistake while working.

Also, you might want to check if your fragrance is CP soap safe. I noticed that unless you buy from reputable sellers eg soap lab, they dont really know much about the fragrances.

As for your question on forcing gel, most places will suggest CPOP, but tbh, with our weather, you dont need to. If you want to force gel, you can do so by just soaping at a high enough temp, store the soap in a styrofoam box with a blanket or hot water bottles. The humidity's main effect from my experience, is mainly in the unmolding. Depending on the weather the days after soaping, if its warm and humid and you used a high amount of water, the loaf might feel tacky when unmolded. Not an issue and it'll resolve itself once you start curing it.

Hi squarepancakes thanks for the advice. Would try out in my next soap batch.

I actually bought all the materials for soap making from soap lab. Since i'm really new to soapmaking i pick a local craft store to start to avoid potential headaches and price was decently acceptable.

It also seems like i do need to invest on a thermometer to get my envision soap. As created a few batches without it would do some test back as well.

 

[Ara Mo]

I'd try the other formula, AND soap a bit warmer to start with. Not a lot warmer, but with the recipe you used and with that much water, I would have expected it to heat up enough to gel in your environment with the insulation you used.

I have gelled soap in hot weather outside and well covered. Since you have an ant problem, perhaps adding an extra layer of protection that also keeps the heat inside the soap would be helpful. Some folks here at SMF put their freshly molded soap into an insulated container like used for keeping food or drinks in (styrofoam or other material, often called 'coolers' in the US, but not sure about what they are called in Malaysia.) That type of container should keep the ants out of your soap while it encourages gel.

As far as the crumbly edges, I have found that it may or may not go away over time. If it doesn't, you can still use the soap as is or you can cut the outer crumbly areas away; that is entirely your call. I went ahead and used the soap when this happened to me. In use the crumbly bits wore away and the rest of the bar was fine.

Ow i should try that. Thank you.

I was about to try putting my pitcher plants next to the soap to attract them away.

 

[squarepancakes]

Hi squarepancakes thanks for the advice. Would try out in my next soap batch.

I actually bought all the materials for soap making from soap lab. Since i'm really new to soapmaking i pick a local craft store to start to avoid potential headaches and price was decently acceptable.

It also seems like i do need to invest on a thermometer to get my envision soap. As created a few batches without it would do some test back as well.

Surprised to see that you have not been checking your temperatures. A thermometer is something I would definitely deem to be an important tool.

Also, good that you're buying from a reputable source, but just fyi, some of their EOs arent suitable CP soap. I have some local friends who had bad results and provided feedback (that's why some of their EOs now have a note saying not CP soap stable) so you might still want to be careful if it's a new EO you've not tried prior.

 

[glendam]

If you force gel in the oven you could rescue your current batch, something similar happened to me and Deanna’s advise of following a video method fixed them. Here it is: Crumbly soft soap

 

[Ara Mo]

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If you force gel in the oven you could rescue your current batch, something similar happened to me and Deanna’s advise of following a video method fixed them. Here it is: Crumbly soft soap

Hi glendam, thanks for the advise. Though when am using it it still works as a soap bar functionally, so for this batch would not re-batch yet.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Though when am using it it still works as a soap bar functionally, so for this batch would not re-batch yet.

TIP: With an INS Value of 135 you can expect this soap to require a longer cure than the normal 4-6 weeks. At 12 weeks I think it will better meet your expectations.