CPOP weird top

[kelly2019]

Hello everyone! I've been lurking around the forum and finally have a question I cannot find the answer for on the site...
I did my first CPOP soap batch, not a loaf but more of a flat cake type mold that my son made-- 7x9 and the recipe made about 1" thickness, with 25 oz oil. the size is actually perfect for what I want to make/use.
Anyway, I added my titanium after my very thin trace and forgot the fragrance oil. (kids in kitchen w me, will be alone next time!) Then added micas to make other colors after the titanium.
The top is obviously an important part of the soap bars when doing a 1" thickness....and mine ended up with a buttermilk pie type top this morning. it's not bad, wipes off with a wet paper towel, but then it isn't smooth like I wanted it to be, either. I don't think it's what is called soda ash.

I didn't spray with alcohol or anything...or cover at all.
Is this what I did wrong? Is this why so many on youtube sprinkle with glitter on top? lol Because I guess maybe I should order some glitter.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or tips!!

 

[dibbles]

Since it wipes off, I'm guessing it's ash. A picture would be helpful, as well as your recipe including water amount and CPOP process (how long, what temp, did your soap gel).

 

[dixiedragon]

I think the type of mold you're describing is a slab mold.

https://nurturesoap.com/collections/soap-molds/Slab-Molds

Just an FYI, so you know what we are talking about!

I too am inclined to think ash. Some FOs are prone to it much more than others.

 

[kelly2019]

I think the type of mold you're describing is a slab mold.

https://nurturesoap.com/collections/soap-molds/Slab-Molds

Just an FYI, so you know what we are talking about!

I too am inclined to think ash. Some FOs are prone to it much more than others.

It's definitely a SLAB mold, a tiny homemade slab mold.
On the ash...does it stay tacky?
I'll take some pics and see if that gives any clues.

Since it wipes off, I'm guessing it's ash. A picture would be helpful, as well as your recipe including water amount and CPOP process (how long, what temp, did your soap gel).

lye-94g, water 269g, 1.5 tsp sodium lactate.....SB when both temps were around 110.
lard, shortening, canola, coconut, hemp, shea, total 708g oil.
fragrance 22 g (but I forgot it!)

Since it wipes off, I'm guessing it's ash. A picture would be helpful, as well as your recipe including water amount and CPOP process (how long, what temp, did your soap gel).

put in 170 degree oven for 45 minutes and turned off,. at that time the buttermilk pie type film was on it already.
left overnight in the warm oven.

 

[shunt2011]

Sounds like ash and maybe overheating. All you need to do is warm up the oven and then put your soap in the oven and turn it off. If it wasn't covered it likely dried out too.

 

[kelly2019]

center top is the bottom of the soap, the center bottom shows the top, and side where arrow points is the top weird layer.

Sounds like ash and maybe overheating. All you need to do is warm up the oven and then put your soap in the oven and turn it off. If it wasn't covered it likely dried out too.

I've read people cover with saran wrap, is that what you suggest?

 

[shunt2011]

I think some use saran wrap and place a towel over the top. Otherwise they wrap the mold. I don't CPOP except on rare occasion. I have no problem gelling my soaps just by insulating them.

 

[earlene]

What happens if you spray with alcohol now and wipe it dry? If it looks brighter and colors are less muted, it's ash.

I don't really know what buttermilk pie is or looks like, so I am not really understanding what your mean by the top looked like that right from the start.

One thing about TD and other micas, is that the TD will make the added colors paler or more pastel than if you used those micas without the extra TD. I would suggest your only add TD to the portion of soap you want to be white, but not to the portions you want to be colored. The colors will be brighter that way. The only oil you used that would create a beige tinge to the soap is hemp, and you don't list your proportions of oils, so it's hard to say if that effected your colors or not. I have used hemp oil and even at 100% hemp oil, it doesn't mute the colors as much as rice bran oil seems to do, so I wouldn't expect it would make a huge difference if used at say, 10%. Oh, and shea, but at 5% which is what I use when I include shea, it doesn't lend much color to the soap either.

I do see bits of TD smearing, so pre-mixing the TD may be an issue you need to address in future. How much did you use? Poorly mixed TD can add to the white spots I am seeing on the outer surfaces of the soap, and those spots smear when the soap is cut. Not a problem, just esthetics.

For my eyes the 'weird surface' is not clear enough to ascertain what you mean. Is it rough? Is it the side of the soap (in the mold) or the top of the soap (top as poured into the mold)? With the top of the soap as poured into the mold, my soaps always tend to be a bit more rough than smooth, simply because the soap gets thicker and doesn't flatten out into a glass-like surface. If that is what I am after (a glass-like surface), I plane the soap to create a smooth finish (after it is hard enough to handle for trimming and planing.)

 

[kelly2019]

What happens if you spray with alcohol now and wipe it dry? If it looks brighter and colors are less muted, it's ash.

I don't really know what buttermilk pie is or looks like, so I am not really understanding what your mean by the top looked like that right from the start.

One thing about TD and other micas, is that the TD will make the added colors paler or more pastel than if you used those micas without the extra TD. I would suggest your only add TD to the portion of soap you want to be white, but not to the portions you want to be colored. The colors will be brighter that way. The only oil you used that would create a beige tinge to the soap is hemp, and you don't list your proportions of oils, so it's hard to say if that effected your colors or not. I have used hemp oil and even at 100% hemp oil, it doesn't mute the colors as much as rice bran oil seems to do, so I wouldn't expect it would make a huge difference if used at say, 10%. Oh, and shea, but at 5% which is what I use when I include shea, it doesn't lend much color to the soap either.

I do see bits of TD smearing, so pre-mixing the TD may be an issue you need to address in future. How much did you use? Poorly mixed TD can add to the white spots I am seeing on the outer surfaces of the soap, and those spots smear when the soap is cut. Not a problem, just esthetics.

For my eyes the 'weird surface' is not clear enough to ascertain what you mean. Is it rough? Is it the side of the soap (in the mold) or the top of the soap (top as poured into the mold)? With the top of the soap as poured into the mold, my soaps always tend to be a bit more rough than smooth, simply because the soap gets thicker and doesn't flatten out into a glass-like surface. If that is what I am after (a glass-like surface), I plane the soap to create a smooth finish (after it is hard enough to handle for trimming and planing.)

Excellent advice on the TD, I saw bits of white throughout, yes I don't think I mixed it well, it was my first time using. and the colors were a lot more muted than I wanted. I mixed my powder mica colors and TD with water...would it be better with oil, or alcohol? thoughts on that?
The weird surface was only on top, and it's like a whipped soap consistency, a thin layer, still tacky and pasty. It doesn't exist the parts that touch the mold, on the sides or bottom at all, nor throughout when sliced. (just on the top)
I started pouring into the mold immediately, would that make a difference in the "whipped"-ness of the top?
What I mean, should there be a short resting time before I start pouring?

Earline, I tried shaving off a thin layer from the top and I think that was it!! the colors under the mushy part are hard and more vibrant. (will be better without the TD that you suggested though) But I guess I didn't mix it well and it made a weird layer on top.

How do you all mix your powder colors and TD to put into a design that you CPOP?
I'm so glad I don't have to be ashamed to ask questions here...you guys are top notch.

 

[shunt2011]

@kelly2019 - That totally depends on what you are using to color. When using mica I will either add it directly to my batter and stir well then just give it a quick pulse with the stick blender. Or I'll mix them separately with a bit of oil from the batch. Or you can blend them with a bit of glycerine. Personal preference. I like how your colors turned out. I use water soluble TD so I will usually premix a small bottle before starting my soaping session. If I'm only making 1 batch I'll just mix a little in a small cup with a bit of water.

 

[dibbles]

I mix my micas in a bit of oil. My TD is water soluable. I usually don't CPOP, but do force gel with insulation around my mold set on a heating pad.

 

[Dawni]

I premix my TD in a little water before making my soap. You'll have to check if your TD is water or oil soluble but I've read there's some that's both.. I seem to remember someone saying you can mix it with glycerin too but I'll have to double check.

Here's an ongoing discussion regarding TD you might get better advice from. And here's a recent thread on micas and another one. Both also mention TD. I've not gotten the hang of micas yet lol

Pretty soap btw, good job on the swirls

 

[earlene]

Depends on the TD you purchased (see the manufacturor's info about whether it can be mixed with oil, water, both or even glycerin). I buy the type can be mixed with either water or oil. That way I don't have to worry about which one to use. Mostly I use oil. But it can also be mixed with glycerin, which I have done on occasion as well.

For TD, I like to mix it as far in advance as possible because of the smearing that insufficient mixing can cause. To pre-mix for multiple use (say several batches of soap), I use a squirt bottle with a topper and a stainless steel fishing weight sinker (or you can use a ball bearing if you can find one - I couldn't find one locally) to use to help mix the TD back into solution prior to squirting into my soap batter. MAKE SURE TO SECURE THE TOPPER before shaking, using the tip of one of your fingers. This avoids squirting TD all over the place.

I use a mini-blender called a Badger, for mixing my colorants into the medium. I hold my gloved hand over the top of the container JUST IN CASE to prevent any spots escaping out the top and splattering the surrounding area. Once I got used to mixing splatter free, it's not so much an issue, but it can happen, so beware.

As to how I mix the colorants into the batter: I separate the batter into smaller containers (whatever works, but I like plastic measuring cups with a pour-spout, but lot of different containers do suffice, depending on your plans for the soap), making sure the BELL of my stick blender will fit in the bottom. I prefer to use a container just big around enough to receive my SB, but tall enough so that the SB will become submerged in the soap batter. That's important to prevent splatter when mixing the colorant into the soap.

If only coloring a tiny amount of soap batter, and my regular SB is too big, then I use a spoon or the Badger.

Being careful not to introduce air while mixing colors into to batter, of course.

I still don't know what caused the layer as you describe it. Maybe air bubbles rose to the surface? I can't really picture what you are describing. If air bubbles, that would be a bit rough as they pop, but you can get rid of them by spraying with alcohol while the soap is still fluid (even in the mixing bowl before pouring). If the soap batter is thick, you can gently tap the mold up and down on the surface of your counter to help release air bubbles; they will rise toward the top of the soap, then spray with alcohol and they will pop. A bit more tapping will help smooth out the surface. But be careful; if you tap the mold too vigorously it can pop out of the mold sort of like cornmeal pops up out of the pan when it starts to come to a boil.

Or if you pour the soap batter too fast into the mold, when it is still quite liquid, you can produce a frothy sort of bubbly surface. But I have no idea if you did that or not. Was this an In-The-Pot swirl?

Incidentally, hemp oil produces lots of nice bubbles in soap. You should see my 100% hemp oil soap. The bubbles are amazing!

 

[penelopejane]

175* for 45 min is way too hot for CPOP. I agree with shunt, you cooked your soap. Follow her instructions for insulating your soap.

In winter if it’s cold and you have to CPOP your soap heat oven to 110*F max (test with thermometer) turn oven off and put wrapped soap in oven and leave for 12-18 hours without opening oven door. Good idea to put a sign on the oven so some loving family member doesn’t decide preheat the oven to cook a cake I the oven while the soap is in there...

Nice swirl.

 

[amd]

For reference: here's a buttermilk pie.

I believe the "rippling" effect that you're seeing is due to heat. I had it happen to a honey soap that I made before I learned to soap a bit cooler. It's harmless although maybe not "pretty". Soap cooler and see if the affect happens.

 

[kelly2019]

175* for 45 min is way too hot for CPOP. I agree with shunt, you cooked your soap. Follow her instructions for insulating your soap.

In winter if it’s cold and you have to CPOP your soap heat oven to 110*F max (test with thermometer) turn oven off and put wrapped soap in oven and leave for 12-18 hours without opening oven door. Good idea to put a sign on the oven so some loving family member doesn’t decide preheat the oven to cook a cake I the oven while the soap is in there...

Nice swirl.

Thanks for the advice...one thing I don't have to worry about is ANYONE in my house cooking. hahaha! All boys/men and no chefs.

 

[Lin19687]

DARN YOU @amd Now I am starving @!

View attachment 38107
For reference: here's a buttermilk pie.

I believe the "rippling" effect that you're seeing is due to heat. I had it happen to a honey soap that I made before I learned to soap a bit cooler. It's harmless although maybe not "pretty". Soap cooler and see if the affect happens.

 

[hoibot]

I had that form on one of my CPOP soaps recently. I don't think it's a mixing issue as my color is consent throughout except for where it looks white in that layer. As suggested earlier in the thread, I believe it's a combination of Ash, which I almost always get a small layer of on my CPOP soaps and overheating as I forgot to turn the oven off for an hour or so that night. Scrapes right off and has no impact on soap performance.

 

[newbie]

I think your soap got too hot and the top of the soap suffered the most. I've had the top do what you are describing. I figured in my case that the soap didn't separate but the top got a bit oily and funky, like it was just short of alien brains. I scraped the top of the soap with a flat blade to get it off and the underlying soap was fine. It doesn't really look like ash from what I can see.