CPLS beginner

[j163j]

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking of trying to make CPLS becauase I've been making it hot process and my soap is dark when I make large batches. When they're small, it's light yellow. Either way, It's clear, but I don't like the color with large batches. I'm a beginner to all types of soapmaking but liquid soap is the only one I know how to do right now. I know with cold process regular soap it has to cure. Does CPLS have to cure for weeks and weeks or is it ready and safe to use the next day? I ask because I need my soap to have a quick turnaround time. I cannot wait weeks or too many days for my soap to be ready.

Also, should liquid soap be a hard paste when it's done or should it be kind of gooey? I use the IrishLass glycerin method and my small test batches were gooey. But when I scaled up, about half was gooey underneath and the top was pretty hard.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Keep in mind, there are many ways to make LS. This is how I do it.

CPLS = COLD PROCESS LIQUID SOAP

With Cold Process LS, I use KOH 90% and 0% SF to make sure all the fats are saponified.
Combine when oils are 160°F and KOH solution is 140°F
Keep warm at 160°F while bringing to trace.
Bring the batch to hard trace (12-15 minutes for Coconut Oil; 45 minutes for Olive) and stop there.
Cover and allow 2 weeks for full saponification.
The paste will be hard or soft depending on the oils used.
A balanced recipe with 50% coconut and 50% liquid oils of choice is ideal.
Using glycerin for part of the water to make the KOH solution allows you to soap hotter/faster.

Here's a thread to help choose the oils you want in your recipe.

WHAT TO EXPECT FROM VARIOUS OILS IN LS

Do not rush to dilute the soap. You want to be sure it's fully saponified before diluting.

CLARITY TEST, ADDING EOs, THICKEN WITH SALT

DILUTION PHASE

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I use the IrishLass glycerin method and my small test batches were gooey. But when I scaled up, about half was gooey underneath and the top was pretty hard.

There are about as many ways to make LS as there are LS-ers! I have not made @IrishLass 's LS, but I understand why she uses the various elements to enhance the prospect for a successful result. It's a good recipe to make for personal use. I would not change a thing. I would not add or delete an additive. I would not recommend it for upscaling -- that would be too challenging for even an experienced LS-er like myself.

 

[j163j]

Keep in mind, there are many ways to make LS. This is how I do it.

Thanks for all the thoughtful info in these two posts. The video in the links was especially helpful for my particular situation. Just curious, do you recommend your method (or any) for upscaling? Also, with CPLS I cannot find a consensus on when it is safe to use. In your tutorial, you say wait 2 weeks for full saponification. In the video from one of your links, she was done after just a few hours from start to finish. IrishLass also mentioned hers was done after a few hours from start to finish (depending on her schedule) and then she moved to dilution. And then I’ve read some other books, articles, blogs, and posts where there are varying opinions/methods regarding the doneness of liquid soap. But, when people say “done” and then they dilute, does that mean it’s safe to use on the skin? I know all the lye must have reacted with the oils for it to be safe in the saponification sense, and that you shouldn’t dilute until it’s “done”. And I’m looking into a different test other than the phenol drops and clarity test since apparently those aren’t accurate. But, once I use a test that is accurate and it shows all the lye is reacted (even if it’s only been, say an hour or so), does that mean the soap can be diluted and is safe for bodily use?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Just curious, do you recommend your method (or any) for upscaling?

Catherine Failor, who wrote the "Bible" on making LS in 2000 and got the ball rolling, uses 100 oz oils (approx. 6 lbs) batches in all her recipes. Her water to lye ratio is 3:1 and 0% Super Fat. I also tick the 90% KOH because it is typically less pure than NaOH and I'm OCD about clarity. I use SoapCalc to formulate thusly:

If I were upscaling, that's what I would do. Keep it simple. Less opportunity for mistakes. If you can find the book at the library, it's very informative. The recipes are good, the content is based on science, but her double boiler technique is passé.

I know all the lye must have reacted with the oils for it to be safe in the saponification sense, and that you shouldn’t dilute until it’s “done”.

That's correct.

I’m looking into a different test other than the phenol drops and clarity test since apparently those aren’t accurate.

As far as I know, there are only 3 ways to test LS paste -- the two you mentioned and the ZAP test.

Altho the majority of SMF LS'ers prefer the ZAP test, I find phenol drops to be the most reliable. You can view the correct way to use them in Carrie Peterson's video of making GLS (glycerin LS) at the 5 minute mark. (See Post #8 in Irish Lass's tutorial). But that's just me. I've seen too many Newbies go from the ZAP test to dilution right away and end up with particles that settle to the bottom during the 2-week sequester -- which is another thing most LS'ers no longer do.

But, once I use a test that is accurate and it shows all the lye is reacted (even if it’s only been, say an hour or so), does that mean the soap can be diluted and is safe for bodily use?

Yes. But, in any case, I've found it's better to wait a day or 2 before diluting, no matter which test you use. Once you've made a few batches you'll have a better feel for what works for you.

As for cook times, it varies depending on the oils used. For instance, Olive Oil takes longer to saponify than Coconut Oil.

 

[Tara_H]

with CPLS I cannot find a consensus on when it is safe to use.

I generally leave it overnight to make sure it's finished saponifying and dilute the following day. I've had no issues with harshness or separation in doing it that way vs storing the paste a long time.

 

[AliOop]

A bit late to the party here but for my CPLS, I usually do as Tara stated above and wait to dilute until the next day. At times I have zap-tested an hour after reaching paste and found that it was saponified, and I began diluting right away. I find the zap-test easy and reliable - hasn't failed me yet.

The LS-dilution timing debate is a lot like the HP curing debate. It comes down to a matter of preference, really. From the scientific perspective, once your LS paste is zap-free, it's safe and ready to dilute and use. Whether it is ideal to you as the user is another issue. "Sequestering" (letting your LS sit undisturbed) for a few weeks often makes the soap milder. Again, that's similar to HP - sure, you can use it right after cutting the bar off the loaf. You can also use most CP bars within 48-72 hours after they are fully saponified. But you will probably be happier with the final soap qualities if you can wait for a few days. Same with LS - time does improve it and make it milder. But you don't have to be scared to use it in the meantime.

To answer your questions regarding paste consistency, that will depend on your temps, your oil choices, your water:lye ratio, whether you used dual lye or just KOH, whether you added glycerin or salt, and so on. While it can be helpful to compare your paste to that of the sample recipes, the true test is the end product, not the paste. There's a lot of room for variation, so unless you are finding that your paste doesn't dilute correctly, or there is some other problem, you are probably doing just fine.