CP issues, not thickening

[Jamison]

I've been trying a few methods, but this one today should have worked.

Olive Oil: 20oz
Coconut Oil: 1.4oz
Coconut Butter: 6.61oz
Jojoba Oil: .95oz
Hemp Oil: .45

Distilled Water: 8.5 (Fluid) oz
Sodium Hydroxide: 3.84oz

I heated the oils to around 140 letting them melt. I heated the water to around 100, then added lye powder. I let both pots cool to around 118, then slowly poured the lye water into the oils. I used an electric hand mixer for around 20 mins and could not get it to thicken much passed a real thin pudding consistency.

I did a similar recipe a couple days ago and couldn't get that to get thick either. I thought I did something wrong so I tried again, verifying my recipe numbers 3 times w/ different lye calculators.


Thanks for any help... Getting frustrated.

 

[soapsmurf]

Two questions and some comments:
By "Coconut butter," do you mean "Cocoa Butter"?
Where did you get your recipe?

In my experience, it is not necessary to heat your oils to 140. Rather, it is preferable to heat until only fully melted and mixable.

Omit heating of the water used to dissolve the lye. The water used should be COOL (room temp to ice), not HOT.

Also, when I ran your recipe through soapcalc, I didn't not get numbers within the desired ranges for various soap characteristics.

 

[Jamison]

I mean coconut oil in solid form... Opposed to fractionated.


I heard read to heat the water a couple places, but won't now. Do you think that would create the problem I'm having?



What calculator are you using them? I used 3 different ones to verify my numbers.

 

[carebear]

Olive oil, which is the vast majority of your formula, is notoriously slow to trace. Just keep mixing.

 

[Jamison]

Beyond 20 mins, really?



I found calcsoap.com, not really sure how to use that one. But it seems to be a better tool than the other ones I've used.

 

[soapsmurf]

Beyond 20 mins, really?



I found calcsoap.com, not really sure how to use that one. But it seems to be a better tool than the other ones I've used.

Ran through another calculator. Recipe seems ok. Next time try without heating the water for lye, and yes, olive oil is sloooow to trace. Carebear's a pro.

 

[Jamison]

I've been playing with soapcalc and came up with 11.176oz water, 4.369oz lye

It appears this is using 11 weight ounces of water, not fluid. However 11 weight oz is right around 11 fluid ounces.

 

[Jamison]

Can you jog my memory on the temperatures associated w/ coconut oil? Something to do w/ melting points, right?

I have 100% Organic coconut oil (virgin/raw) that's in solid form, and a liquid fractionated form.

 

[Jamison]

So this non-traced liquid I poured into a mold that's not hardening. Is there any sort of use for this? Or is it junk... I'd hate to throw away all this stuff.


I'm also wondering if the size of the batch matters. Is that fine having oils only making 30-50oz?


thanks so much!

 

[Sunny]

I would pour it back into a bowl, and stick blend it again until it comes to a thicker trace, then put back in the mold.

 

[smartinoff]

I would either try to blend it to a thicker trace or pop it in the slow cooker or double boiler and try to hp the batch. I've had plenty of batches take forever to trace, i've learned that the low setting on my stick blender gets it done faster at times.

 

[Jamison]

I guess I'll give it another go.


I was working w/ bio-glycerin this week as well.... I don't know what creation was made today, but it surely wasn't want I wanted. Super separation, but a thick fluffy top layer. I'll check it out tomorrow.

 

[ChrisShepp]

Beyond 20 mins, really?

Jamison,

The first batch of CP soap I ever made was a 4 pound batch of 75/25 Olive Oil-Coconut oil blend. I mix with a paint stirring attachment on a contractor-grade high speed drill. Thin, barely visible trace took over 40 minutes...

Olive is just that way. Lard and Tallow are worse! :?

Good luck and happy soaping!

 

[Jerry S]

Getting soap to trace...

When started back making soap a few months ago, I as well used a paint mixer to mix up a batch of soap. It took and hour and I barely made trace in that hour. :cry: That batch of soap was made with only lard. Then, I bit the bullet and bought a stick blender...

What a difference even using the softer oils like olive oil, lard and such. I’m at trace in 10 to 15 minutes MAX…I think that mixing the oils when they are hot retard the mixture coming to trace faster than if they were cooler…100 degrees on both the oil and lye water are what I found works well.
Jamison probably had his mixture to hot. But, the stick blender is the ticket if one is going to make much soap..

Jerry S..

 

[honor435]

use a stick blender, it will save you much time in, w sb trace comes fast, like a minute? more for high oo.
also, all trace is, is mixing the oils with the lye/water, so if it mixed, it will work, people think that you have to see "trails" on top of mixture, not true.

 

[Jerry S]

Making sure the mix is soap and not soup

Watching for trails on a batch of soap is a sure way of anyone making soap including us beginners to know it’s mixed thoroughly. It’s been my experience that the time between when it’s “mixed” which could be “iffy” and trace, which is a positive, is a heartbeat. Why not play it safe and wait a few more seconds for trace?.
Jerry S
:wink:

 

[honor435]

youre right for newbies, but, if you wait for trails, you wont have much time to swirl or even after you add fo it could move fast!

 

[carebear]

I'm not sure what you are saying. I wait until light trace before adding colorants for swirls. Trails don't need to mean pudding stage. heavy cream leaves short-lived trails too.

But beyond this, for soaps with a majority of olive, or especially lard or tallow, letting it sit a few minutes to make sure it's not going to separate can be crucial.

Really a matter of experience, tho.

 

[hieroglyph]

..

as a noob, i'm learning fast that lard/palm/tallow (40-55%) with OO (20ish%) are slow to trace.

give it a good mix then let it sit for a few min. seems to help more than a constant churning. my batter will start a trace then regress if i stir too much.

38% waterils is a contributing factor too(me thinks).

 

[Jamison]

use a stick blender, it will save you much time in, w sb trace comes fast, like a minute? more for high oo.
also, all trace is, is mixing the oils with the lye/water, so if it mixed, it will work, people think that you have to see "trails" on top of mixture, not true.

If that's not true then it would just take longer for the batch to dry?

The first batch I poured after 30 mins of mixing was very runny. Two days later it was still very soft.