CP Breaks off when cutting them. Why?

[luvzzme]

I got this lovely recipe from a posting in this forum "French Vanilla Latte Soap" only did the soap base, skipped the the coffee additive part. Recipe calls for water, I used cow's milk, so I put soap in freezer for 45 hours to prevent gelling. After removing from freezer and cut the soap it broke off. I tried it again in 5 hours still broke off. Anyone have idea why that is? Do I need to thaw after taking out from freezer? How long do I wait to thaw before cutting the soap?

This is recipe I used:

13.7oz olive oil (42.8%)
6.24oz Coconut oil (19.5%)
5.35oz Sweet Almond oil (16.4%)
4oz Cocoa butter (12.5%)
2.82 Shea butter (8.8%)
4.16 oz Lye
8.32oz Cow's milk

10% super fat
Lye/Water Ratio: 33% (2:1)

I combined Lye and Oil around 85F degrees, there were clumps floating on the milk/lye.

 

[shunt2011]

You waited too long to cut it. You have a lot of hard butters/oil in there . Also, you didn't have enough liquid you did 1:1 lye/milk The clumps floating were fat from the milk saponifying more than likely. It looks really dry too. Did you zap test it?

 

[Jersey Girl]

You waited too long to cut it. You have a lot of hard butters/oil in there . Also, you didn't have enough liquid you did 1:1 lye/milk The clumps floating were fat from the milk saponifying more than likely. It looks really dry too. Did you zap test it?

It looks to me that she used 16.25 oz of liquid (half mik half water). That’s a lot of liquid in relation to the 5.5 oz of lye. Looks like about 60/40 soft to hard oils.
OP edited recipe in post with new liquid amounts so my response isn’t relevant now. Nevermind...lol

 

[moodymama]

I had a fragrance oil cause this just couple weeks ago. Peony 424 from WSP. Same exact recipe I've used at least 6 times before turned out perfect, but with this fragrance oil soap got hard and crumbled when cut. That peony soap also reminds me of hard chalk and doesn't zap. I ended up grating it up and using it for laundry soap, I use a low SF.

 

[Jersey Girl]

You definitely need to thaw it before you cut it.

 

[shunt2011]

It looks to me that she used 16.25 oz of liquid (half mik half water). That’s a lot of liquid in relation to the 5.5 oz of lye. Looks like about 60/40 soft to hard oils.
OP edited recipe in post with new liquid amounts so my response isn’t relevant now. Nevermind...lol

Her recipe is very difficulty to translate. Maybe!!! Should have posted just the recipe as done exactly. Either way, something may have been miss measured or it just sat too long.

 

[luvzzme]

I had a fragrance oil cause this just couple weeks ago. Peony 424 from WSP. Same exact recipe I've used at least 6 times before turned out perfect, but with this fragrance oil soap got hard and crumbled when cut. That peony soap also reminds me of hard chalk and doesn't zap. I ended up grating it up and using it for laundry soap, I use a low SF.

what's SF?

 

[Jersey Girl]

what's SF?

Superfat

 

[luvzzme]

I should have written a better for the recipe, Thanks for those of you tried to help I made it so confusing :/. What I meant was I reduced the size of the original recipe. Below is the original recipe:

17oz olive oil
7.75 oz Coconut oil
6.5 oz Sweet Almond oil
5oz Cocoa butter
3.5oz Shea butter

5.5oz Lye
16.25 oz water
10% super fat

 

[luvzzme]

It looks to me that she used 16.25 oz of liquid (half mik half water). That’s a lot of liquid in relation to the 5.5 oz of lye. Looks like about 60/40 soft to hard oils.
OP edited recipe in post with new liquid amounts so my response isn’t relevant now. Nevermind...lol

Thanks for trying to help I realized my recipe sounds so confusing so I edited it lol
so 40/60 soft to hard oil results crumbly/flaky soap in general?
My lye/milk got cold due to ice bath so i had to reheat it back to 85-90F, oils was at 85-90F as well.
Was it the floating fats from lye/milk that I didn't stick blend? I just poured into the oil with those clumps...

 

[shunt2011]

You actually used way too much liquid. That's not a 33% Lye Concentration (2:1) You did almost 3:1. Did you try to cut it while frozen or did you let it sit out for awhile? Have you zap tested it? Did you add any fragrances or additives? Your liquid and your oils don't have to be the same temperature. I use room temp lye mixture and just warm oils. I don't think adding the saponified milk affected it. But in the future I would strain it to make sure the lye was all dissolved.

 

[luvzzme]

You actually used way too much liquid. That's not a 33% Lye Concentration (2:1) You did almost 3:1. Did you try to cut it while frozen or did you let it sit out for awhile? Have you zap tested it? Did you add any fragrances or additives? Your liquid and your oils don't have to be the same temperature. I use room temp lye mixture and just warm oils. I don't think adding the saponified milk affected it. But in the future I would strain it to make sure the lye was all dissolved.

 

[luvzzme]

I thought doubling amount of lye for water gives 33%? I used 4.16 oz Lye 8.32oz Cow's milk.
1st cutting was right after freezer, as you can see from the picture. I waited 5 hours to cut again, soap was broke off from the middle like the 1st piece.
When I get home tonight I will zap test (I googled how to do it earlier, will be my 1st time doing it)
No fragrances or additives to this soap, only oils/milk/lye.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I thought doubling amount of lye for water gives 33%? I used 4.16 oz Lye 8.32oz Cow's milk.
1st cutting was right after freezer, as you can see from the picture. I waited 5 hours to cut again, soap was broke off from the middle like the 1st piece.
When I get home tonight I will zap test (I googled how to do it earlier, will be my 1st time doing it)
No fragrances or additives to this soap, only oils/milk/lye.

Yes, a 2:1 lye concentration is 33.33% lye concentration. That should have been fine. 60/40 soft to hard oils is fine too. I think you just cut it too soon after being in the freezer too long. give it a little more time to thaw and try to cut again.

 

[luvzzme]

So I just tried "zap test" for the 1st time, it had strange feeling on my tongue but not "zapped" like electric shot.
And was able to cut into pieces without bars breaking off (fully thaw worked
And I do realized I DID add a little clay into the it, as you can see from the bar there are 2 layers, and the bottom is flaky, which is the layer I added clay. (I just sprinkled, maybe should add water to the clay next time?)
Another thing, I do see there are white spots, is that lye? or could it be the clumps from lye/milk mix?

 

[penelopejane]

So I just tried "zap test" for the 1st time, it had strange feeling on my tongue but not "zapped" like electric shot.
And was able to cut into pieces without bars breaking off (fully thaw worked
And I do realized I DID add a little clay into the it, as you can see from the bar there are 2 layers, and the bottom is flaky, which is the layer I added clay. (I just sprinkled, maybe should add water to the clay next time?)
Another thing, I do see there are white spots, is that lye? or could it be the clumps from lye/milk mix?

Some of the white spots are stearic spots (soaping too cool) and some are probably the milk that separated or undissolved lye.
Next time use the split method (search on this forum for this) and you will avoid these problems.
It's a good idea to always use a soap calc to downsize a recipe so you avoid problems.

 

[linne1gi]

Yes, a 2:1 lye concentration is 33.33% lye concentration. That should have been fine. 60/40 soft to hard oils is fine too. I think you just cut it too soon after being in the freezer too long. give it a little more time to thaw and try to cut again.

I agree, the water to lye ratio is 2:1 which is equivalent to a 33% lye solution. Everything looks fine until you tried to cut a frozen soap. Next time let it thaw first. You can rebatch this if it isn't usable as is - cut or grate it up into small pieces, put into a crockpot of pot on the stove (I use the stovetop) - add a small amount of liquid (1-2 ounces) and allow to melt down. Because of the milk, this may darken - but you should still be able to mold and cut it within a day. After it is all melted, maybe add a little yogurt to add some lactic acid, mold and cut when it is solidified.