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As a family, we decided to apply for temporary residency for my mom. We fully expect her application to be denied and when /if it is, we will appeal. This should give us a few more months of not having to worry about her safety.

Denmark has had an increase of cases over the last month resulting in some sectors being sent back to work from home. Masks are mandatory on all public transportation and in restaurants and cafes until you are seated. Kids are in school and we get notices when the Danish Health Authorities make any changes. The school our youngest goes to did have 1 positive case of a kid in grade 7. Our kiddo is in grade 0 and the school had precautions in place so the children don't mingle with other kids outside of their class.

My husband is being treated for a presumptive positive for Lyme's disease. I'm going to make a t-shirt for him that says "I survived Corona with Lyme's"

I try not to be discouraged or sad because we are very fortunate to be living in Denmark, have my mom here and my husband have a job that is very supportive. But man, I miss the ease of travel of a year ago. I wish I could hop on a plane and go...anywhere.
 
Our County doesn't meet the criteria for Nursing Home Visits, so we can't go visit MIL. Here's hoping our county new case rate goes down to the Nursing Homes open up for family visits again.

MarnieSopien, when my granddaughter flew back home in June after a long visit (she has come back with me by car), she wore not only a mask, but a face shield. I was so proud of her for planning her personal protective gear right from the start as soon as the flight plan was discussed.

I'd rather drive, myself, but I know that's not a viable option for some destinations.
 
All i can say to my American folks is please... Vote.
Pease... Listen to scientist. Not politicians with no scientific backrounds who only spew lies.
Please... do your own research and factcheck everything you hear.
We are all tired, and clearly the government is doing terribly. We have to take it onto our own hands and follow guidelines, and listen to Scientist. It could be way better by now if everyone would just do the right thing.
If you truly love America, do the right thing.
 
All i can say to my American folks is please... Vote.
Pease... Listen to scientist. Not politicians with no scientific backrounds who only spew lies.
Please... do your own research and factcheck everything you hear.
We are all tired, and clearly the government is doing terribly. We have to take it onto our own hands and follow guidelines, and listen to Scientist. It could be way better by now if everyone would just do the right thing.
If you truly love America, do the right thing.
I agree with you, but will also note that even the scientists have widely varying statements about what works and doesn't work. Last year at this time, the CDC website was adamant (to the point of mocking) about the fact that masks don't work to stop the spread of airborne illnesses, and used SARS as the specific example. Of course, all of that has now been removed. Was the previous "science" correct? Or is this current "science" correct? I can't fault anyone for taking either side in that debate, but I do fault people who want to assume ill intent on the part of others who don't believe like they believe.

So along with your plea, I would urge people to listen carefully even to opinions and beliefs of those with whom you disagree. Ask questions about why they believe certain things that seem strange to you. Get to know them as a person, and see if there isn't some common ground where you can appreciate them as a human being.

It's too easy for us to get stuck in an echo-chamber life where we only associate with those who share our beliefs, whether that is about masks, or which science is the correct science. Then we start thinking that others who believe differently are stupid, or even evil.

There will always be stupid and evil people in this world, but not everyone who thinks differently than you do will necessarily fall into either of those categories. And if we stay stuck in believing that they are stupid and evil, then we remain divided, instead of working to find common ground to move forward in a way that is respectful of people as individuals.
 
I agree with you, but will also note that even the scientists have widely varying statements about what works and doesn't work. Last year at this time, the CDC website was adamant (to the point of mocking) about the fact that masks don't work to stop the spread of airborne illnesses, and used SARS as the specific example. Of course, all of that has now been removed. Was the previous "science" correct? Or is this current "science" correct? I can't fault anyone for taking either side in that debate, but I do fault people who want to assume ill intent on the part of others who don't believe like they believe.

So along with your plea, I would urge people to listen carefully even to opinions and beliefs of those with whom you disagree. Ask questions about why they believe certain things that seem strange to you. Get to know them as a person, and see if there isn't some common ground where you can appreciate them as a human being.

It's too easy for us to get stuck in an echo-chamber life where we only associate with those who share our beliefs, whether that is about masks, or which science is the correct science. Then we start thinking that others who believe differently are stupid, or even evil.

There will always be stupid and evil people in this world, but not everyone who thinks differently than you do will necessarily fall into either of those categories. And if we stay stuck in believing that they are stupid and evil, then we remain divided, instead of working to find common ground to move forward in a way th
 
I agree with you, but will also note that even the scientists have widely varying statements about what works and doesn't work. Last year at this time, the CDC website was adamant (to the point of mocking) about the fact that masks don't work to stop the spread of airborne illnesses, and used SARS as the specific example. Of course, all of that has now been removed. Was the previous "science" correct? Or is this current "science" correct? I can't fault anyone for taking either side in that debate, but I do fault people who want to assume ill intent on the part of others who don't believe like they believe.

So along with your plea, I would urge people to listen carefully even to opinions and beliefs of those with whom you disagree. Ask questions about why they believe certain things that seem strange to you. Get to know them as a person, and see if there isn't some common ground where you can appreciate them as a human being.

It's too easy for us to get stuck in an echo-chamber life where we only associate with those who share our beliefs, whether that is about masks, or which science is the correct science. Then we start thinking that others who believe differently are stupid, or even evil.

There will always be stupid and evil people in this world, but not everyone who thinks differently than you do will necessarily fall into either of those categories. And if we stay stuck in believing that they are stupid and evil, then we remain divided, instead of working to find common ground to move forward in a way that is respectful of people as individuals.

Amen to everything you wrote @AliOop
 
You know, if you posted this on twitter, they would remove it as being disinformation. There is no such thing as "alternate facts" when it comes to science. I agree that we must be respectful to others who hold differing opinions, but opinions are not science, and being respectful has nothing to do with truth. The CDC has never said that masks were useless. They said we shouldn't wear them in the beginning because the hospitals did not have enough PPE for healthcare workers and they didn't want people on the street using PPE that was needed in the hospitals. There was such a run on masks in the general public, that PPE was not available for healthcare workers. Since there was literally nothing known about this new virus when it hit, the advice has been evolving. No scientists at the CDC has given us "wrong advice", they have just been updating the advice as more information came to light. When someone who is not a scientist has proof, as the scientists do, about how the scientists are wrong, as in studies and not opinions, then I will give them consideration. Sorry, with all due respect, but this sounds like magical thinking.
 
I agree with you, but will also note that even the scientists have widely varying statements about what works and doesn't work. Last year at this time, the CDC website was adamant (to the point of mocking) about the fact that masks don't work to stop the spread of airborne illnesses, and used SARS as the specific example. Of course, all of that has now been removed. Was the previous "science" correct? Or is this current "science" correct? I can't fault anyone for taking either side in that debate, but I do fault people who want to assume ill intent on the part of others who don't believe like they believe.

So along with your plea, I would urge people to listen carefully even to opinions and beliefs of those with whom you disagree. Ask questions about why they believe certain things that seem strange to you. Get to know them as a person, and see if there isn't some common ground where you can appreciate them as a human being.

It's too easy for us to get stuck in an echo-chamber life where we only associate with those who share our beliefs, whether that is about masks, or which science is the correct science. Then we start thinking that others who believe differently are stupid, or even evil.

There will always be stupid and evil people in this world, but not everyone who thinks differently than you do will necessarily fall into either of those categories. And if we stay stuck in believing that they are stupid and evil, then we remain divided, instead of working to find common ground to move forward in a way that is respectful of people as individuals.
@goat soap rulz! didn't specify mask-wearing, and given the number of people who still aren't washing their hands, I'd start there instead. Mask-wearing is easier to identify and gets more noise, but if we could at least get everyone to wash their hands after using the bathroom, that would be nice. There seem to be a number of people in this country (extrapolated from observation) who don't follow basic hygiene practices and aren't changing that just because there's a pandemic.
 
There's a difference between "alternate facts" (which are actually lies to suit a chosen narrative) and the kind of science that's going on - evolving science if you will. The scientific process is a slow, plodding, painstaking, highly detailed process. Often it's AFTER the studies are done that researchers discover where the flaws were in their process and how that may have colored their findings....so they go back to redesign the study and start over. Then - the experiments have to be replicated by other researchers with the exact parameters - and if they get different results - it's back to the drawing board ...again.

There's also interpretations of those findings - and 2 highly qualified science groups and have 2 different interpretations of those findings. So guess what....they experiment again.

Another factor is, because of the medical need - doctors are reporting "anecdotal" observations, and researchers are choosing some of them to base an experiment on - because Covid is a moving target and sometime you just have to pick a starting point and jump in to learning what you can. However - any reports from experiments using anecdotal info are supposed to be labeled as such.

So, I'm not surprised that things change from one month to the next. (I'm not including info from politicians). This is exactly what I would expect. Also - when journalists try to write informative article to the average reader (neither of which are highly knowledgeable in science-speak) - then there's lots of mis-interpretation that happens.

Science is still learning about the 1918 pandemic. We won't be good at handling Covid - until years have passed and all the data has been collected, and researched exhaustively.

(For 24 years I've been surrounded by highly respected scientists, including a virologist, neuroscientist, researcher - and others. In fact, one of them is responsible for inventing the process that maps the entire genome of viruses in hours, instead of weeks - and overseeing the building of the machine that does it.
Before knowing these people, I had little respect for science; rolled my eyes in our earliest conversations and couldn't wait to change the subject. Now - well, medical science saved my life for the first time when I was about 7 months old - and it's done it a couple of times since. I'm a believer.)
 
Don't get me wrong - I love and appreciate scientists, and science.

What I don't like is the easy dismissal of anyone who questions status quo, says that they have different results than others, etc. Just look how many different results we get here on this forum, even using the same oils, recipe, etc. There's room for difference if we would respect one another long enough to listen.

You know, if you posted this on twitter, they would remove it as being disinformation. There is no such thing as "alternate facts" when it comes to science. I agree that we must be respectful to others who hold differing opinions, but opinions are not science, and being respectful has nothing to do with truth. The CDC has never said that masks were useless. They said we shouldn't wear them in the beginning because the hospitals did not have enough PPE for healthcare workers and they didn't want people on the street using PPE that was needed in the hospitals. There was such a run on masks in the general public, that PPE was not available for healthcare workers. Since there was literally nothing known about this new virus when it hit, the advice has been evolving. No scientists at the CDC has given us "wrong advice", they have just been updating the advice as more information came to light. When someone who is not a scientist has proof, as the scientists do, about how the scientists are wrong, as in studies and not opinions, then I will give them consideration. Sorry, with all due respect, but this sounds like magical thinking.
You must not have read the actual CDC pages in the past (which I did, and wish I had printed) which said that mask-wearing was completely ineffective against SARS (a viral cousin to COVID). During the first big SARS outbreak, the CDC website had pictures of streets in Asian countries, filled with mask-wearing crowds, and a headline that said, "Masks are ineffective and may even be harmful." Dr. Fauci even made that statement ON TAPE at the beginning of 2020.

I cannot emphasize enough that my point is not whether masks are effective. I'm just using the change in scientific stance on that one issue to point out that "science" isn't always as hard and fast as it is played to be. Even the experts change their mind, and not all of them agree, either. Scientific studies can and often are designed to prove a pre-existing hypothesis. Remember the "studies" funded by Big Tobacco that "proved" that smoking wasn't harmless to our health?

I'm not advocating in any way to ignore "science," but to READ the actual studies and scientific literature to make sure they prove what they purport to prove. And keep in mind that what is "true" today may be disproven tomorrow based on a better understanding of the science.

EDIT: ....and to respect others who may have an honest difference in beliefs, whether they don't believe the same facts as you do, or whether they don't believe the same conclusion as a result of those facts.
 
You must not have read the actual CDC pages in the past (which I did, and wish I had printed) which said that mask-wearing was completely ineffective against SARS (a viral cousin to COVID). During the first big SARS outbreak, the CDC website had pictures of streets in Asian countries, filled with mask-wearing crowds, and a headline that said, "Masks are ineffective and may even be harmful." Dr. Fauci even made that statement ON TAPE at the beginning of 2020.

I cannot emphasize enough that my point is not whether masks are effective. I'm just using the change in scientific stance on that one issue to point out that "science" isn't always as hard and fast as it is played to be. Even the experts change their mind, and not all of them agree, either. Scientific studies can and often are designed to prove a pre-existing hypothesis. Remember the "studies" funded by Big Tobacco that "proved" that smoking wasn't harmless to our health?

I'm not advocating in any way to ignore "science," but to READ the actual studies and scientific literature to make sure they prove what they purport to prove. And keep in mind that what is "true" today may be disproven tomorrow based on a better understanding of the science.

EDIT: ....and to respect others who may have an honest difference in beliefs, whether they don't believe the same facts as you do, or whether they don't believe the same conclusion as a result of those facts.
I am an advanced practice nurse who has been involved in science for over 50 years. I keep up with all the CDC recommendations, even before the pandemic, I have been involved in research, I know how to read research and how to evaluate whether or not a study is valid or verifiable based on methodology and conclusions. The CDC has never printed any material that is scathing or mocking that I have read. Any study that is funded by the industry that is being investigated should be viewed with skepticism. That is why reputable sources require that potential conflicts of interest by the investigators are admitted and published. Comparisons between SARS and Covid 19 are like comparing apples to oranges. So, yes, I have read the studies, and I read new studies every day. I am confident in saying I know of what I speak or I don't speak, and I don't make assumptions, which are dangerous, nor do I try to fill in the voids in science by coming up with conclusions and plans of action that are not based on proven facts. It is very, very difficult for me to stay quiet when people spread information that is not helpful in saving lives. I have opinions and beliefs, but they are not the same as scientific facts.
 
@beckster51 I stand corrected: it wasn't the CDC that published the mocking pictures. It was newspapers, that were basing their stance on the CDC's official position that masks don't help.

I know this for a fact, because when travel resumed after a SARS outbreak, I was in the midst of planning a work trip to Hong Kong. So I personally read the news articles, and then personally read the CDC's website stating that face masks don't help prevent the spread of viral diseases. That official position was not changed until sometime early in 2020, well after the COVID-19 outbreak.

Whatever... I have no dog in the fight as to whether masks should or should not be worn. I only want to do what the facts support is the best thing to do. But what we believe to be facts today, often changes tomorrow. As a medical professional, you surely know about the first doctor who advocated hand-washing to prevent the spread of disease - he was severely mocked and ostracized by his medical peers. Before that, people were executed for daring to hypothesize that the earth was round.

So who am I to say that what someone puts forth as fact - whether from mainstream medical, or those believed to be off-beat quacks - is or is not correct? That's why I listen to and read a wide variety of sources that say widely conflicting things: far left, alt-right, and everything in between. You absolutely have the same right to decide what sources you want to hear and trust. But I'd never go so far as to say that this source or that source is the one that has all the right facts. History shows that almost never is so.
 
Semmelweis was indeed mocked, but he was right, and his assertions were based on data. I understand you have the right to listen to whoever you desire, but I do believe it is important to listen to those who have been educated to pursue the truth in these issues and who have gone to the trouble to having their assertions backed by data. And civil servants, who are never paid enough for their efforts and expertise, IMHO, should be given more weight than others. It's easy to write an article, not so easy to ensure that you know what you are talking about. Stay well!
 
Semmelweis was indeed mocked, but he was right, and his assertions were based on data. I understand you have the right to listen to whoever you desire, but I do believe it is important to listen to those who have been educated to pursue the truth in these issues and who have gone to the trouble to having their assertions backed by data. And civil servants, who are never paid enough for their efforts and expertise, IMHO, should be given more weight than others. It's easy to write an article, not so easy to ensure that you know what you are talking about. Stay well!
I can certainly agree with all of that. :)

Thank you for the spirited, respectful discussion about these interesting times, and your selflessness as a medical professional who regularly puts her own health on the line for the benefit of others in need.
 
In the midst of this pandemic, my eldest son is so isolated, it worries me greatly. None of the family has been able to visit him, nor has he been able to visit any of us either due to distance, travel restrictions, financial circumstances, medical circumstances, wildfires and so forth. On top of that, his landlord wants all tenants out of the property (a few tiny houses she rents to HUD recipients) and began a campaign to force them all out perhaps before the pandemic, or just as the pandemic hit; timing could simply be a co-incidence. But whether it just happens to be a co-incidence that she started this in the Spring, or not, she attempted to evict all tenants from all units after the pandemic began to rage here in the US. Luckily because there is a moratorium on evictions right now, his housing situation is safe for a bit. And lucky for the landlord, HUD recipients are required to pay their portion of the rent or HUD will drop them, so the rent does get paid.

She's better off than my younger son, whose tenant didn't pay rent for 6 months and her excuse was 'you can't kick me out because of CoVid' & the moratorium on evictions. So they can't pay the mortgage on their house which is now up for sale. He'd be better off if he had set up renting to HUD recipients.

But back to my eldest son, who is so isolated and I am really worried about. This year I do not want to put my health at risk by traveling to California, and I have explained that to him. It gives me so much guilt considering that I have always gone to visit him at least once per year for the past several years, and he needs me or someone, but no, it's me he needs and it is so hard to communicate with him by phone. His speech is hard to understand on the phone, often his speech is pressured, especially lately. Getting him to slow down, enunciate and speak clearly is nearly impossible. And my hearing loss makes it even more difficult. Face to face, I can usually calm him and we can communicate better, but on the phone it's very difficult and I am sure just as frustrating to him as it is for me.

So here's the deal for my little family...

Younger son & DIL are trying to sell the house here in town that they used to live in before moving to Texas; they have not been able to keep up with the mortgage payments because they didn't have the income (not just CoVid related - deadbeat tenant related, but exacerbated by CoVid pandemic); the back has turned the mortgage over to collections (I just learned this last week). Older son will need to find a new place to live soon if the eviction moratorium is lifted; he has HUD but even so, finding a new place will be difficult; his car needs work again; he lives on his disability payments, so income is limited; he cannot work, cannot hold a job when he tries; he needs mental health support, which is sporadic for a variety of reasons, some internal and some external; Our mortgage is paid off; Hubby has job security with a steady income (except in the case of a government shut-down, then his departments has always had to work without pay); my income is steady (2 retirements + Social Security); we can afford to buy younger son's house so they don't have to go bankrupt and destroy their credit; we can provide eldest son a home, which we believe we can get HUD approved.

So Hubby & I are working on a plan to buy the house, get it ready for him and his dog; we have to install a fence for the backyard; get him a washer & dryer; perhaps upgrade the bathroom (for his handicap). I actually thought he might balk at the idea, but he has warmed up to it a lot in terms of the long-haul, as it is single story and a nice location in town and he wants us to retire to a single story home in future, and although he wanted to move to another state, I really like it here and sees real potential with this as our retirement home if eldest son decides he can't live in the MidWest (we did try it once before, and he didn't take to it, but that was in the same house as us; this might actually be better for him as he doesn't live well with others.)

DIL is highly family support oriented, so she loves the idea of selling to us to provide a home for her brother-in-law, and believes younger son will feel the same way because he feels guilt sometimes that he can't help his brother or stand to be around him for prolonged periods when he tries. And Hubby is very considerate in that he wants to help younger son & DIL out financially in such a way that we don't take unfair advantage of their financial straights and offer a fair price for the house rather than gouge them like the last buyers tried to do. I am extremely proud of my husband's ethics and wish my Dad were still alive to see this, because he would have been so proud of my husband as well.

In any case, this pandemic (SARS Co-V-2) has certainly exacerbated this entire situation for us, but also for untold numbers of others in similar situations around the nation, and I expect, the entire world.
 
@earlene these are such difficult times, and your situation is another example of why. It seems that the solution is of benefit to every one of you in some way, and I applaud your family for finding a way to work it out to find a positive outcome. The best to you as you move your son home.
 
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