Coronavirus

[Arimara]

@KiwiMoose I would never verbally assault you. I agree that your points are valid.

I also think that some of the points of non-mask wearers (which I listed) are valid. In other words, there is no perfect solution to the problem, and getting upset at each other over differing opinions only raises our stress levels so we don't think clearly or act wisely and compassionately.

Masks or no masks aside, the US has a lot of reasons for why our rates are highest:
~much more open borders than other countries that were smart enough to lock down sooner
~lack of good tests available to catch infections sooner
~failure to actively trace and isolate those who have had contact with infected persons
~false inflation of numbers even when no tests confirmed that COVID was the cause of death. Why? because the hospitals are paid more for COVID deaths. I know this from my friend who works in finances at a local hospital.

If that's true, I want to know the real numbers of who died from Coronavirus and I want to know if my mom's friend from chruch really died from that as well.

 

[MarnieSoapien]

I worked as a medical records coordinator in the US before moving to Denmark 5 years ago. I've seen a few death certificates and from what I remember, there are 4 lines under cause of death. So, the covid cases might seem skewed if a person has a heart attack and dies but was also positive for covid. That could be listed on the death certificate as a cause of death even if it wasn't a direct cause (does that make sense?).
As far as hospitals getting more money for covid cases, I think this has a lot to do with the amount of time and care a covid patient needs vs a non-covid patient. I can only hope doctors and hospitals are being honest and not trying to inflate numbers.

 

[mishmish]

Speaking of the corona virus, the government gave 7.3M$ to a start-up company in Houston called Fillakit (founded six days before landing the govt contract, by a shady guy who has run scams before) that was supposed to provide test tubes for the covid tests, but instead sent non-sterile soda bottle "blanks" (intended to be expanded to become 2 liter soda bottles) that can't be used as test tubes, don't fit into the test tube holders, were contaminated, and were loaded into plastic bins and rental trucks by workers with snow shovels, working from a garage. FEMA has sent these to 50 states, and they are all unusable. Your tax dollars at work, folks. If they finish their "contract", they'll get a total of 10.16M$. Heaven help us.
h ttps://meteor.news/2020/06/18/the-trump-administration-paid-millions-for-test-tubes-and-got-unusable-mini-soda-bottles/

 

[beckster51]

Wow, @TashaBird -- thanks for suggesting this idea. A case of 48 sheets, 48" x 48" per sheet, is about $88 plus shipping. That would make a TON of inserts for masks. Or I suppose you could make masks directly from this material.

I wonder if people are doing a "group buy" kind of thing where a case of these sheets is divided amongst a group of people. That would make it more affordable and reasonable. I suspect many people don't need a whole case of this stuff.

I found a smaller quantity on sale on Etsy. I certainly could not use a huge amount of this, and it can be very expensive. (Which I find hilarious since you can get it for free if you work in a hospital. Most of the sterile trays come wrapped in it.) So, I would suggest anyone interested look on Etsy.

 

[cm4bleenmb]

There are many online sources. My friend who made the inserts for me is a biochemist with compromised immune system. Do not wash the fabric, but it can be sterilized in the oven At 165 for 30 minutes.
https://www.usamedicalsurgical.com/...l-sterilization-wraps-h600-fabric-heavy-duty/

I went to the link and if I am understanding the quality statistics of this, you could buy the H100 and it would be just as effective but much lighter on the face. (If someone who knows could chime in, that would be great.) And it comes in a 12 x 12 size, 1000 of them for less than $50.

 

[penelopejane]

The 3 months of self imposed isolation is really starting to wear my mother down. BCV (before covid-19) she had a strong social network, was volunteering and going to church every Sunday. Now she stays at home and has no one to interact with, except for my aunt (her sister) and uncle, who live next door. My mom spends most of her time on Facebook and I've been trying to come up with alternative ways for her to spend her time.

We video chat at least once a week and yesterday she broke down and started to cry because Facebook is her only social outlet. After a few questions I found out what kind of books she likes to read and have ordered a book for her and will keep ordering books for her monthly for the foreseeable future. The libraries are still closed in the town she lives in.

Any suggestions on ways to make isolation more bearable? I've suggested numerous hobbies but she's not interested in them.

What about zoom if she’s computer savvy?

 

[Karen May]

@KiwiMoose I would never verbally assault you. I agree that your points are valid.

I also think that some of the points of non-mask wearers (which I listed) are valid. In other words, there is no perfect solution to the problem, and getting upset at each other over differing opinions only raises our stress levels so we don't think clearly or act wisely and compassionately.

Masks or no masks aside, the US has a lot of reasons for why our rates are highest:
~much more open borders than other countries that were smart enough to lock down sooner
~lack of good tests available to catch infections sooner
~failure to actively trace and isolate those who have had contact with infected persons
~false inflation of numbers even when no tests confirmed that COVID was the cause of death. Why? because the hospitals are paid more for COVID deaths. I know this from my friend who works in finances at a local hospital.

The majority of your statements are spot on.

However, there is currently ZERO evidence than hospitals are gaming the system and claiming deaths as COVID-19 that aren't. I've worked in hospital IT for more than 30 years. If you're caught submitting fraudulent claims to Medicare/Medicaid, the penalties are severe. Also, it's not just Medicare/Medicaid patients with COVID-19. It spans all health insurance carriers and you can bet they are auditing every claim filed and if all of the activities associated with the claim do not match the final diagnosis, the claim is rejected. Coders are required to utilize the full patient record, inclusive of lab tests, treatment documents, medications and supplies to determine what diagnosis codes are applicable.

I wear a mask and gloves every time I leave the house. I got yelled at in a Walmart by someone who wasn't, just standing on line waiting to check out. It shocked me. The woman told me I had been lied to and that "You democrats are destroying all of our rights just because you don't like Trump!" I kept my temper in check and replied. 1. I'm not a democrat. 2. I'm high risk. 3. Thank you, I will continue to "suit up" until there is a proper treatment or a vaccine.

The final comment I'll make is this. Too many people ignore basic distancing and safety measures. When I do have to go to the grocer, I find myself dodging people who get too close. When we practice safety measures, we not only protect ourselves, we protect those we encounter.

 

[MGM]

Speaking of border closures, I just hope our Prime Minister has the will to keep our southern border closed for as long as possible. He certainly has the mandate.
I think Americans don't really understand how the rest of the world sees them.

 

[AliOop]

The majority of your statements are spot on.

However, there is currently ZERO evidence than hospitals are gaming the system and claiming deaths as COVID-19 that aren't. I've worked in hospital IT for more than 30 years. If you're caught submitting fraudulent claims to Medicare/Medicaid, the penalties are severe. Also, it's not just Medicare/Medicaid patients with COVID-19. It spans all health insurance carriers and you can bet they are auditing every claim filed and if all of the activities associated with the claim do not match the final diagnosis, the claim is rejected. Coders are required to utilize the full patient record, inclusive of lab tests, treatment documents, medications and supplies to determine what diagnosis codes are applicable.

I wear a mask and gloves every time I leave the house. I got yelled at in a Walmart by someone who wasn't, just standing on line waiting to check out. It shocked me. The woman told me I had been lied to and that "You democrats are destroying all of our rights just because you don't like Trump!" I kept my temper in check and replied. 1. I'm not a democrat. 2. I'm high risk. 3. Thank you, I will continue to "suit up" until there is a proper treatment or a vaccine.

The final comment I'll make is this. Too many people ignore basic distancing and safety measures. When I do have to go to the grocer, I find myself dodging people who get too close. When we practice safety measures, we not only protect ourselves, we protect those we encounter.

Karen, I’m so sorry that happened to you. It is the perfect example of people jumping to conclusions based on appearances.

People on both sides of the debate do that, and it is so sad. Instead of assuming others are stupid or don’t care about others for _____ (wearing a mask, not wearing a mask) why not assume that they (rightly or wrongly) sincerely believe differently than we do about the problem, as well as the solution?

I live in a very low-numbers area where most people aren’t and haven’t been wearing masks. Still, our numbers didn’t jump till they re-opened the bars and other locales where people were packed in together.

What I found so sad was to see people mocking those who did wear masks, or excoriating those who didn’t. The lack of basic human decency is disheartening.

As for the allegedly inflated numbers, my friend who works in claims said they are being strongly encouraged by govt health officials and insurance companies to report cases and deaths as COVID-related even without testing to confirm it. I don’t work in that system so I can’t personally say, but I can say that my friend is a person of integrity who would not make up something like that.

Speaking of border closures, I just hope our Prime Minister has the will to keep our southern border closed for as long as possible. He certainly has the mandate.
I think Americans don't really understand how the rest of the world sees them.

Oh, we understand, at least some of us. And some of that is well-deserved.

But please don’t forget we aren’t all the same, either. Just take a look at our news, and you can see that there is no one set of opinions or beliefs that can categorize US citizens, any more than the citizens of most other countries.

We don’t do each other favors when we decide that everyone from X country (religion, color, gender) is like _____ (fill in your media-shaped point of view about whatever).

Despite our country’s faults, so many Americans also have deeply wonderful qualities. Many have the most generous hands when it comes to those in other countries who are in need.

And for some reason, people from all over the world who love to bash us still want to emigrate here if given a chance.

 

[Catscankim]

I dont even watch the news anymore. They are so full of crap most of the time. They twist things for a good story.

I work in a trauma hospital...i LIVE the news in our area. But then they talk about a story, i sit there like noooooo thats not what happened. I was THERE lol.

One story was about a guy who go bit by a gator (Reality here lol). Local news glorified it that he was in critical condition and currently in surgery to save a limb. Where did THAT come from? He was sedated to clean out the FLESH WOUND and discharged a few hour later lol.

I really hate the media. Someone once told me....if you really want to know whats happening in America, watch the UK news lol.

 

[rdc1978]

The 3 months of self imposed isolation is really starting to wear my mother down. BCV (before covid-19) she had a strong social network, was volunteering and going to church every Sunday. Now she stays at home and has no one to interact with, except for my aunt (her sister) and uncle, who live next door. My mom spends most of her time on Facebook and I've been trying to come up with alternative ways for her to spend her time.

We video chat at least once a week and yesterday she broke down and started to cry because Facebook is her only social outlet. After a few questions I found out what kind of books she likes to read and have ordered a book for her and will keep ordering books for her monthly for the foreseeable future. The libraries are still closed in the town she lives in.

Any suggestions on ways to make isolation more bearable? I've suggested numerous hobbies but she's not interested in them.

My elderly aunt is kind of in the same position, it's just her and my cousin.

She and my cousin take a weekly drive to an open location, like the area surrounding a beach or just wherever and they get an ice cream cone.

She also visits with extended family, but they stay outside and six feet apart from each other. Ive heard that the virus does not spread as well outside and they make sure to keep a distance.

I think for my aunt, it's about calculated risks. Not sure if any of that works for your mom. I think my aunt's and your mom's generation were used to going out to socialize and it has been hard.

Do you think she would like zoom calls? I heard a story a while back that some of the senior center were doing classes on zoom and it's a little more duplicative of the in person experience.

At work we had a virtual happy hour on zoom, I didn't much care for it because there were too many people. But two of my friends and I had a zoom call and I thought that was much better.

My friend took me out for my birthday, and by that, I mean that we each sat in our car like a couple of hobos and ate our food and chatted with each other. I'm not a person who needs a lot of in person contact but this made me feel really good.

Also, if your mom likes books, maybe she can try podcasts?

The issue of mask-wearing is complex. I do my best to wear one when in crowds, but I do seriously consider the viewpoints of those who don't. That way, instead of being angry at those people, I can acknowledge that they have some valid perspectives, even if their decisions differ from mine.

Here are some of the perspectives I've heard from those who choose not to wear masks:

~ When COVID first appeared, we were told repeatedly that masks don't help. There are still no strong scientific studies confirming that masks do help. What does help? Social distancing, frequent hand-washing, and isolation of those who have been or may have been infected. The CDC website even says that "the cloth face cover is not a substitute for social distancing."

~ During the SARS outbreak years ago, we all saw pictures of mask-wearing people in affected countries. These articles contained prominent statements advising everyone that masks don't prevent the spread of disease at all; they just make people relax and feel better about going out.

~ Many people have issues with asthma or a mental health issue, and cannot wear masks, period. You cannot tell whether someone has a breathing problem or mental health issue by how fit or "normal" they appear to be. (Note: I personally have asthma and have to remove my mask immediately if I sense that my levels are dropping).

~ People who do wear face coverings are constantly touching them. By doing this, they are picking up all the germs they've breathed out into the mask. Then they are touching everything in the store or other public place, and then touching their faces again to adjust the mask. Thus, it is quite possible that more germs are being transmitted by mask wearing, than by going without masks.

~ Social isolation has a proven negative effect on one's immune system and overall health, and masks exacerbate the isolation.

Again, I am not saying that I agree with all of these points. However, if we seek to understand why someone may think or behave differently than we do, it helps us not be angry, upset, or anxious towards them - all of which emotions are also bad for our immune systems.

1. So, I don't remember the message ever being that masks didn't help. I remember the message being that healthcare workers needed them more and there wasn't enough of a supply. I can see how that would be awfully nuanced and could sound like "don't wear a mask, it doesn't help"

2. I think that we are learning more and more now about how the virus transmits and how masks can be used. Since we haven't really had a pandemic of this magnitude in a while I don't think we had previously done as much research as we are doing now and in as many settings.

We've been dealing with the virus for less than a year and the knowledge base is increasing everyday.

3. It appears that covid may spread more easily than SARS.

In covid cases the viral load is highest in the nose and mouth fairly early, so that may be when a person is asymptomatic or barely sick and therefore they can spread it without knowing. Versus SARS, where the viral load peaks later, when the person is already clearly sick. There don't appear to be cases of asymptomatic SARS spread. So if the viral load with SARS peaks when the carrier is really sick and likely out of commission, mask wearing may not have helped since those carriers would likely be out of the public anyways.

https://www.healthline.com/health/coronavirus-vs-sars#symptoms
4. Since ashtma is an underlying condition that could make covid so much worse, I really think those with asthma should really try to wear a mask or stay home.

I have an underlying condition and I'm super scared of getting coronavirus. At least for me, I can drive every other week and use Wal-Mart's curbside grocery pick up, which is contactless. I can order a lot of things online. I can deal with wearing a mask, but if I had a condition that fully barred me from breathing with a mask, it's probably one that would make the pulmonary effects of COVID 10x worse for me so I'd try to just stay away from people and inside.

5. Speaking of new research, apparently the virus can spread from surface to human, but it's unlikely. To me, this would mean that it's still better to wear a mask since surface to human spread seems unlikely even under the worst of circumstances.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5232748002

 

[Catscankim]

1. So, I don't remember the message ever being that masks didn't help. I remember the message being that healthcare workers needed them more and there wasn't enough of a supply. I can see how that would be awfully nuanced and could sound like "don't wear a mask, it doesn't help"

2. I think that we are learning more and more now about how the virus transmits and how masks can be used. Since we haven't really had a pandemic of this magnitude in a while I don't think we had previously done as much research as we are doing now and in as many settings.

We've been dealing with the virus for less than a year and the knowledge base is increasing everyday.

3. It appears that covid may spread more easily than SARS.

In covid cases the viral load is highest in the nose and mouth fairly early, so that may be when a person is asymptomatic or barely sick and therefore they can spread it without knowing. Versus SARS, where the viral load peaks later, when the person is already clearly sick. There don't appear to be cases of asymptomatic SARS spread. So if the viral load with SARS peaks when the carrier is really sick and likely out of commission, mask wearing may not have helped since those carriers would likely be out of the public anyways.

https://www.healthline.com/health/coronavirus-vs-sars#symptoms
4. Since ashtma is an underlying condition that could make covid so much worse, I really think those with asthma should really try to wear a mask or stay home.

I have an underlying condition and I'm super scared of getting coronavirus. At least for me, I can drive every other week and use Wal-Mart's curbside grocery pick up, which is contactless. I can order a lot of things online. I can deal with wearing a mask, but if I had a condition that fully barred me from breathing with a mask, it's probably one that would make the pulmonary effects of COVID 10x worse for me so I'd try to just stay away from people and inside.

Your fears are 100% valid. But all viruses have an incubation time. Average time for infection is about 7-14 days. This is proven. It has always been. If your coworker is sick, chances are you might be sick next week...because they were already infected with ummm....common cold or flu last week before symptoms. covid is no different.

Symptoms...I said infection "Average time for infection is about 7-14 days". I meant symptoms.

 

[rdc1978]

Your fears are 100% valid. But all viruses have an incubation time. Average time for infection is about 7-14 days. This is proven. It has always been. If your coworker is sick, chances are you might be sick next week...because they were already infected with ummm....common cold or flu last week before symptoms. covid is no different.

I think that as far as the common cold or flu, I get my flu shot every year like a champ and a common cold is unlikely to put me in the hospital.

I'd only say that comparing SARS to covid seems like comparing apples to oranges, because by the time the viral load has peaked with SARS, the carrier is already highly symptomatic. It's not to say that they aren't carrying the virus during the incubation period, just not as much, and therefore it wouldn't be as easily transmitted as someone who has coronavirus who had the highest viral loads in the nose and throat (to spread) when they are barely symptomatic or asymptomatic.

So while SARS could spread, it wouldn't have been as rampant or as easy as it would be for covid.

 

[LilyJo]

I have asthma. I cant wear a mask even if I wanted to. Please don't assume that it's something we can all do if we tried - if I am forced to wear one first thing that will happen is I will vomit. Followed within a couple of minutes by a full blown asthma attack which is enough to need an ambulance.

Remember asthma attacks kill people every day.

I am not going out aside from shopping and checking on my parents but luckily I can work from home.

The politicisation, right vs left, of the virus is just maddening. It seems worse in the US and although there is criticism of the UK Govt it seems less partisan. What's the situation elsewhere in the world, are Govts working together on solutions?

Would love to hear from fellow forumites in Aus or NZ where the virus seems much more under control, what made the difference in your opinion?

 

[Catscankim]

I am not a microbiologist or dr. I can only talk about what I see. And SARS....I don't even look for their screens. I kinda dont care when the SARS ALERT screen pops up on the pt charts. and if they call me NOW, that they are bringing a TB pt down I'm like pfffttt bring it on lol.

We had a wine party at a nurses house because we figured....we are all exposed to the same germs together anyway.

I don't even know how to react to most of this covid stuff. They mandate the whole county needs to wear masks, but they don't provide citizens masks. they mandate that we need to wear goggles at the hospital (3 months now into it) but they don't provide goggles. Nurse manager stopped me because I only had on my glasses and needed to put on goggles. GIVE ME GOGGLES AND I WILL WEAR THEM. New employees get two sets of uniforms upon hire because the color of your uniform is mandated. But I can't get eye protection during a pandemic.

But the weird thing is....with all of this lack of protection, no new N95 masks, sub-par surgical masks, everything needing to be worn over and over....only 5 nurses in my whole large hospital have gotten covid since the start of this whole thing. And I am torn over what I know and what I see.

All at once we had an influx of a certain ethnic population. Im like....what, you all go to the same friken picnic???

And they talk about no touching your mask pulling it up and down. but if you only have one mask for 12 hours, its all you do ALL NIGHT.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I have asthma. I cant wear a mask even if I wanted to. Please don't assume that it's something we can all do if we tried - if I am forced to wear one first thing that will happen is I will vomit. Followed within a couple of minutes by a full blown asthma attack which is enough to need an ambulance.

Remember asthma attacks kill people every day.

I am not going out aside from shopping and checking on my parents but luckily I can work from home.

The politicisation, right vs left, of the virus is just maddening. It seems worse in the US and although there is criticism of the UK Govt it seems less partisan. What's the situation elsewhere in the world, are Govts working together on solutions?

Would love to hear from fellow forumites in Aus or NZ where the virus seems much more under control, what made the difference in your opinion?

We shut the borders early, and we went into full lockdown early for one month. We followed that with a further two weeks of partial lockdown - increasing our ‘bubble‘ by an additional one or two people only. After that we had a nationwide contact tracing system launched for the next phase, whereby every location had a QR code to scan upon entry - to enable ease on contact tracing in case of an outbreak.
Our leader has been criticised by the opposition party (right wing) for screwing up the economy. But you know what - we’ve coped pretty well with it, however some people have lost their job or taken a reduction in pay. It is likely that the full impact on the economy is yet to eventuate.
I have heard right wing friends and family members acknowledge that our PM has handled the situation well so that’s a bonus for her as a lefty.

 

[JoeyJ]

The 3 months of self imposed isolation is really starting to wear my mother down. BCV (before covid-19) she had a strong social network, was volunteering and going to church every Sunday. Now she stays at home and has no one to interact with, except for my aunt (her sister) and uncle, who live next door. My mom spends most of her time on Facebook and I've been trying to come up with alternative ways for her to spend her time.

We video chat at least once a week and yesterday she broke down and started to cry because Facebook is her only social outlet. After a few questions I found out what kind of books she likes to read and have ordered a book for her and will keep ordering books for her monthly for the foreseeable future. The libraries are still closed in the town she lives in.

Any suggestions on ways to make isolation more bearable? I've suggested numerous hobbies but she's not interested in them.

Not sure if you have this in Denmark, but I have heard of a Red Cross initiative, where a volunteer phones up people who are living alone to check on them and chat. She may like to phone up some old or young church friends, write down some old stories from her childhood for future generations to enjoy, or organise a collection of "isolation" tips, stories, or recipes that church members submit and she could arrange for a book or ebook to be sent to all members.
Probably a bit contradictory, but we found computer based activities, unless strictly time limited, tended to make us get depressed. Youtube is a good teacher of new crafts. We enjoyed doing macrame, and looking through old photos.
Hope its helpful❤

I have asthma. I cant wear a mask even if I wanted to. Please don't assume that it's something we can all do if we tried - if I am forced to wear one first thing that will happen is I will vomit. Followed within a couple of minutes by a full blown asthma attack which is enough to need an ambulance.

Remember asthma attacks kill people every day.

I am not going out aside from shopping and checking on my parents but luckily I can work from home.

The politicisation, right vs left, of the virus is just maddening. It seems worse in the US and although there is criticism of the UK Govt it seems less partisan. What's the situation elsewhere in the world, are Govts working together on solutions?

Would love to hear from fellow forumites in Aus or NZ where the virus seems much more under control, what made the difference in your opinion?

People who complied...and did exactly what the law stated, and especially, do not go out if you are at all sick, people will come to you and drop off food and medicine for you.
I dont know if its because at the start when there werent enough tests, everyone acted like they were carriers, or everyone else was infected...
Im sure the way stores are required to keep up intense cleaning programs has helped.
Most surprisingly, tho, the general public wearing masks around home and in public (unless you are in the "high risk of dying if you contract it" category) has been widely discouraged, because they give a false sense of security.
Theres no cases here now, and hasnt been any new cases (which started actually on our soil) for weeks...but I still have paranoia when i find myself near a person, especially in a lift...poor person!

 

[MGM]

They mandate the whole county needs to wear masks, but they don't provide citizens masks.

Well, to be fair, they mandate that citizens need to wear pants in public but they don't provide pants either....

they mandate that we need to wear goggles at the hospital (3 months now into it) but they don't provide goggles. Nurse manager stopped me because I only had on my glasses and needed to put on goggles. GIVE ME GOGGLES AND I WILL WEAR THEM. New employees get two sets of uniforms upon hire because the color of your uniform is mandated. But I can't get eye protection during a pandemic.

This, however, is unconscionable. The way PPE stocks federally were not replenished; the way the current administration cut pandemic research; the way the federal administration not only doesn't coordinate with the states, but actively fights against them; the way the CDC has been gutted so that their "science" is now based on what the president wants....all of this has repurcussions, and front-line workers of all stripes suffer them.

All at once we had an influx of a certain ethnic population. Im like....what, you all go to the same friken picnic???

More likely they all went to the same terrible job, whether it's being a PSW in a care home, working the floor in a meat packing plant, or being a prisoner.
Unless by ethnic population, you meant "white people" and then, where they went is to a bar or a family party because "don't tread on me."

The early outbreaks in Canada were in long-term care homes and it was absolutely shameful how it was handled; 84% of deaths in Canada were in these homes. This has led to public inquiries at various levels and discoveries of things like, oh, our former premier from 20 years back cut funding and regulations to care homes and dismantled the public system, giving breaks to private care homes. Now, we learn that same guy has $7 million invested in private homes, and in fact, the chain of homes he's associated with has the highest rate of covid deaths.

The current outbreaks in Canada are among one ethnic population....those darn Mexicans that the US president is always talking about. You know the ones....they cross our border (not by sneaking, mind you, but by flying over an entire country) and take our jobs. And by "our jobs", I mean agricultural worker jobs that Canadians don't want because they are too taxing. Because they don't pay well, workers aren't treated well (not subject to the labour laws that we Canadians insist on), and it's bloody hard work, 12 hours a day, in poor conditions. So these workers flew to Canada, did their 14-day quarantine as all people coming into this country are required to do, and then they got to work. But then, they started falling ill, were told to take Tylenol and keep working, keep sleeping in cramped bunks, keep eating together. Over 800 workers have so far tested positive in the past few weeks; 3 have died. So these essential workers who came here to ensure that I get fresh peppers and cucumbers and strawberries are being infected by Canadians. Because they aren't part of our single-payer system, their employers are responsible for their healthcare bills. Because they are literally trapped on the farms with no transportation, they rely on those same employers for trips to the hospital.

So yeah, there are more brown people infected in Canada than ever before....because they left their country healthy and ready to work hard, and we made them sick :-(

 

[beckster51]

I have asthma. I cant wear a mask even if I wanted to. Please don't assume that it's something we can all do if we tried - if I am forced to wear one first thing that will happen is I will vomit. Followed within a couple of minutes by a full blown asthma attack which is enough to need an ambulance.

Remember asthma attacks kill people every day.

I am not going out aside from shopping and checking on my parents but luckily I can work from home.

The politicisation, right vs left, of the virus is just maddening. It seems worse in the US and although there is criticism of the UK Govt it seems less partisan. What's the situation elsewhere in the world, are Govts working together on solutions?

Would love to hear from fellow forumites in Aus or NZ where the virus seems much more under control, what made the difference in your opinion?

I certainly have sympathy for an inability or perceived inability to wear a mask. I know that's real for some people. Wear a face shield! You can make them from plastic report covers if you don't want to spend a lot of money on them. I am an advanced practice nurse, I keep up with the evolving knowledge of the virus. Let's don't dwell on what was said early on., and let's don't blame everyone else for an evolving situation. Most of us accept new knowledge about soap making vs. myths about soap making, so why can't we move on with current information about Covid-19? It's more important than soap science! Let's don't spend a lot of time rationalizing why we don't want to wear a mask. There are other options. The fact of the matter is that if we don't start mitigating this virus, thousands of people will die that would not have died otherwise, including healthcare workers. My husband is at extraordinarily high risk, so I am isolating as much as possible in order not to expose him. When people do not wear a mask or face shield in public, it makes me a little nuts, I admit it. But I have not said anything to anyone who does not wear one, and I feel ignoring the science is blatant disregard for the health and well-being of others. We need to circle the wagons for the health of everyone.

 

[jcandleattic]

The rest of world is watching the USA and the debates going on around masks, staying at home, and freedom of choice. It seems to us here in NZ, having put in the hard yards as a country to eradicate Covid-19, silly that people wouldn't do all that they can to minimise the spread of the disease.
If you have surgery (in a non- covid world) would you be happy if the surgeon didn't wear a mask? He/she does so to prevent YOU from getting any germs.
If you don't want to go out with a mask where it is mandated to do so - then by all means, don't wear a mask - BUT don't go out. Don't deliberately buck the system and try and force your 'rights' on others who are doing their best to stop the spread. It seems a selfish approach to think that you are somehow special enough to not wear a mask, or to be able to go out and walk around freely in the middle of a lockdown. When we had our lockdown those who had special requirements had a helpline to call for assistance, and we were urged to check on elderly neighbours or vulnerable people to collect groceries on their behalf, or to pick up prescriptions for them. Not to get within 2 metres of them - but to help out where we could.
I understand that it is difficult operating in a crisis under the country's current leadership - who, I'm sorry to say, that the rest of the world (yes I have a large number of friends in Australia, Europe and the United Kingdom too) thinks is an absolute idiot.
If each of us do our very best to stop this virus spreading then surely the crisis will be over sooner rather than later. The USA has the worst spread, the most deaths, the most people infected in the world. Doesn't that say anything?
Sorry - I'm not usually one to write controversial posts but I find it really frustrating standing by and watching this debate. I will duck for cover now and accept that I may well be verbally assaulted.

Well said, and even as an American, I completely agree with you.