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melinda48

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A well-respected doctor in Texas is advocating that we respond to the virus according to the way it is being handled in countries with very low COVID death rates (Japan, Taiwan, Singapore). Unlike the countries with high death rates, these densely-populated countries are beating COVID by:

1. Testing everyone
2. Treating early (none of this "go home and wait" stuff), and
3. Treating it with asthma medications

He started doing this, and has not had one patient die yet. He is trying to get the word out that there IS effective treatment if people will get tested and then treated early. This is also happening in the three countries mentioned -- which did not close down, but DID do widespread testing and early treatment.

Trigger warning: his YouTube video contains a LOT of conservative commentary. If that upsets you, please try to look past that for the substance of what is being discussed: Dr. Richard Barlett on Treating COVID
Conservative commentary? What is that? Dr. Bartlett is a superstar and everyone should be listening carefully to what he says!

One of my friend's friends' kids got kicked in the head by a horse and passed away in the ER. They labeled her death certificate covid 19. The hospital likes to get paid the extra 38,000 dollars per covid death.
There are far too many instances like this. Dying from Covid and with Covid are two different things entirely.

That does make logical sense to me.
The fatalities are in the tank which is a great thing. I don't even listen to the news any more as they are completely off base.

I believe it's more when general population gets serious.
The government does not need to "get serious." The death rate is very very low. We have to have herd immunity. Let's look to Sweden as an example of how to deal with Covid.
 

paradisi

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One of my friend's friends' kids got kicked in the head by a horse and passed away in the ER. They labeled her death certificate covid 19. The hospital likes to get paid the extra 38,000 dollars per covid death.
That's not remotely how it works.
First, there's no "extra 38.000 per covid death." That figure is based on an average of the total medicare payment for a Covid19 patient spending 96 hours on a ventilator. Not an extra payment on top.

Second, there's no billing code for Covid19. Charges are coded by what's done .. bloodwork, scans, iv's etc.

Third, billing is closely examined by all insurance providers and fraudulent charges like what you are suggesting would not only not be paid, there would be investigations and legal charges brought as defrauding the government is a federal crime.

Fourth, I googled and there's no evidence of hospitals padding death numbers. To the contrary, all evidence points to undercounting both infections and deaths.
 

melinda48

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That's not remotely how it works.
First, there's no "extra 38.000 per covid death." That figure is based on an average of the total medicare payment for a Covid19 patient spending 96 hours on a ventilator. Not an extra payment on top.

Second, there's no billing code for Covid19. Charges are coded by what's done .. bloodwork, scans, iv's etc.

Third, billing is closely examined by all insurance providers and fraudulent charges like what you are suggesting would not only not be paid, there would be investigations and legal charges brought as defrauding the government is a federal crime.

Fourth, I googled and there's no evidence of hospitals padding death numbers. To the contrary, all evidence points to undercounting both infections and deaths.
You should check the stats for New York. Patients who died with Covid (not of Covid) listed as a covid death.
 

goat soap rulz!

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Third, billing is closely examined by all insurance providers and fraudulent charges like what you are suggesting would not only not be paid, there would be investigations and legal charges brought as defrauding the government is a federal crime.
The family ended up filing a lawsuit. I haven't heard much since then.

That was just what I was told. I was told they get money per COVID death. I didn't do any research, but it made sense because they have to pay for the medications/ventilators somehow. Maybe it was just this particular hospital. I didn't say it happened at all hospitals.

Sorry if I was giving wrong info. I Didn't mean it like that. I was just saying what I was told...
 

Gaisy59

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If everyone quarantined for two weeks minimum and only going out for food (and work) with masks it would help a lot to get this at least controlled and give the health care workers a break. It sure won’t hurt people to do this for a teensy portion if their lives so that we can get back to some semblance of normal. Pleeease
 

AliOop

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If everyone quarantined for two weeks minimum and only going out for food (and work) with masks it would help a lot to get this at least controlled and give the health care workers a break. It sure won’t hurt people to do this for a teensy portion if their lives so that we can get back to some semblance of normal. Pleeease
I agree that this could be part of the solution. But it is not correct to stay that it won't hurt people. Many people live from paycheck to paycheck. If they are forced to stay home for two unpaid weeks, they will be unable to pay their rent, pay their utilities, buy food for themselves and their children, etc.

So again, while I agree that lockdown will help slow or prevent the spread, saying that "it won't hurt" is very insulting to many who are struggling to make ends meet.

Also, the countries with the highest death rates - the US, Italy, and France, for instance - are those that are locking down, wearing masks, social distancing, and telling people not to come to the hospital until they are very sick.

The countries with the lowest death rates (Japan, Singapore, and Taiwan) have focused on tracing those possibly infected, testing as many people as possible, and treating early with corticosteroids.
 
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Catscankim

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A ton of our housekeeping are out with corona. Really no surprise there. Theres only a few of them that truly do what they are supposed to as far as ppe. I had to yell at their supervisor once because of her lack of ppe in a contaminated room. I mean...not even a mask.

A bunch of unit clerks are out with it. I dont know how that happened....they really dont have contact with patients. This is a mystery to me.

Two ct techs. Scary cause i work with them. They are getting tested tomorrow. All i know is that “they dont feel good”.

Our covid units are at capacity again, so all covid+ patients that came in tonight are holding in the er, and the day shift failed to tell anybody that er bed #9 was positive so we are like...great, thanks guys....
 

penelopejane

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The government does not need to "get serious." The death rate is very very low. We have to have herd immunity. Let's look to Sweden as an example of how to deal with Covid.
Have you looked at the figures? See below. The death rate for completed cases is 7% that is not low and this pandemic is far from over.

Sweden has said they would do things differently if they knew In the beginning what they know now. Their death rate per million population is even higher than the US and the surrounding countries have closed their borders to the Swedish.

if you want to copy anyone look at Vietnam. No 160 on the list below with 97 million people In crowded conditions and NO deaths. They closed borders early, socially distanced, everyone wears masks and they quarantined new arrivals, traced cases and quarantined people with the virus. They have learnt from the 1918 flu, Mers, SARS, and H1N1 how to respond to quickly spreading fatal diseases and they want to protect themselves and their families and communities as best they can.

 
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Gaisy59

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I agree that this could be part of the solution. But it is not correct to stay that it won't hurt people. Many people live from paycheck to paycheck. If they are forced to stay home for two unpaid weeks, they will be unable to pay their rent, pay their utilities, buy food for themselves and their children, etc.

So again, while I agree that lockdown will help slow or prevent the spread, saying that "it won't hurt" is very insulting to many who are struggling to make ends meet.

Also, the countries with the highest death rates - the US, Italy, and France, for instance - are those that are locking down, wearing masks, social distancing, and telling people not to come to the hospital until they are very sick.

The countries with the lowest death rates (Japan, Singapore, and Taiwan) have focused on tracing those possibly infected, testing as many people as possible, and treating early with corticosteroids.
Hey AliOop i did say they would grocery shop and work. I totally agree that an economy cannot shut down. Unfortunately our prime minister thought that keeping people home from work was a solution, but has been paying out money from the coffers and if no one is working who is filling the “bottomless bank”?!
And WHY did we not do what VietNam did? We saw it coming but we did not shut down our borders and immediately screen people.
 

Megan

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Since testing for the virus has ramped up considerably it important to understand that infection rates will reflect this. Meaning we should expect to have a much higher infection rate due to a higher testing rate. What we really need to know is is the Death Rate Dropping? If it is, this tells us one of two things. The virus is running its course or it is becoming less lethal. The Death Rate is a much better indicator of what is going on with the virus than the infection or testing rates. We scream believe the science, what we should be doing is reading the science correctly to start with. And if we believe the Panic Driven Mainstream Media they are focusing on the infection/testing rate instead of the actual death rate. Could it be this helps their ratings and increases their viewer numbers? Maybe
The issue is, deaths lag behind infections. So infection rates are going to go up (as we are seeing), and then 2-4 weeks later, we are likely to see an increase in the death rate. This is especially going to be true in places like Florida, where ICU capacity is being maxed out.

The current administration's rhetoric on the death rate going down means nothing...and will mean nothing until the pandemic is over and we can actually see the case fatality ratio. If infections continue to increase, and mortality continues to fall...then I might be more convinced. Hopefully this can become the case, but to claim this has already happened is foolish.

Plus, it has been estimated, in a well controlled scenario (for instance S.Korea), the actual mortality rate of Covid-19 is anywhere from .2-1%...yet we are seeing an average death rate of 8% in the US...and 7% in Sweden for the people saying they did so well...and there are people who have the gall to claim (and continue to claim) we are doing so well in fighting the pandemic.

Even mortality rate aside...there are people who will have life altering complications from Covid. So they don't die, but they have irreversible scarring in their lungs, or nerve damage, or a host of other issues. Yet people still gripe about having to wear a mask...and grown adults are having temper tantrums when Costco is denying them entry for not following the rules.
 

DKing

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Since testing for the virus has ramped up considerably it important to understand that infection rates will reflect this. Meaning we should expect to have a much higher infection rate due to a higher testing rate. What we really need to know is is the Death Rate Dropping? If it is, this tells us one of two things. The virus is running its course or it is becoming less lethal. The Death Rate is a much better indicator of what is going on with the virus than the infection or testing rates. We scream believe the science, what we should be doing is reading the science correctly to start with. And if we believe the Panic Driven Mainstream Media they are focusing on the infection/testing rate instead of the actual death rate. Could it be this helps their ratings and increases their viewer numbers? Maybe
The thing about the infection rate and the death rate is....we might see a spike in infection weeks to months before we see a spike in deaths. Some people might interpret that time as that the virus isn't as lethal as the science currently might indicate. Then we get less people willing to take precautions and imagine how the virus will spread in that time. (the US is a good example of this happening currently) We need to look back at what has been happening over the half year+ that this has been really showing it's teeth. The death rate to known infection has been significant enough to warrant taking extra precautions. Wear a mask, avoid crowds, protect our elderly and people at increased risk, don't travel far, remember where you have been and who you have been around incase you need to assist in helping trace a cluster. Is it that much of a burden??? I think that the media is doing more to protect lives than some leaders have. Listen to the science and take precautions. If it ends up being not as serious as the media might lead one to believe, it is serious enough that many have lost their lives. All I know is, if someone I loved died due to my unwillingness to make a few changes in my life, I would regret it for life. There has been so much bullshit said about this virus on both ends of the spectrum that no one really knows what to believe any longer so I can understand why each person might be confused what to believe. I myself would rather error on the side of caution though, and take precautions to limit my own personal risks and definitely reduce my risk of unintentionally passing it on to others that might not fare as well as I probably will. I care enough about others to tread a little lighter and listen to the science that is currently out. I have so many people I love who are elderly and have pre existing conditions, that I would not want anything to happen to them. I also have people I love who work in health care or other essential services, and I know the incredible strain that this virus has on them as well. I will do what I have to do to help others out, even if I am not at an extreme risk according to the science.
 

Catscankim

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We had an MCI tonight....Mass Casualty Incident. Multi-car accident and they were bringing them all to us. Christ i dont know how many i scanned. During my third patient, they called me to let me know that at least 7 of them tested positive for covid.

we have a radio system with ems...i kept hearing “hello this is medcom, can you accept one more, hello medcom, can you accept six? Hello medcom can you accept seven? Overhead pages....“Trauma alert, 5 by ground, two by air” “ Trauma alert two by ground”. I have videos of all the chaos. It was like a MASH unit.

Then find out they are ALL testing positive. I could have thrown up.

And i sent my very INEXPERIENCED partner up to the other scanner. I called her on her cell....(lots of curse words here that i will omit)...why is your n95 sitting here???? “ because i needed to clean it”.

I have no words for that

No emergencies during a pandemic.

im like you get down here and get your mask. So i called trauma to have them bring the rest to me, because nitwit doesn't have her ppe.
 

LBV

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I'm from NZ and I think many of us struggle to understand how people in other countries can be so selfish, stupid (in some cases). We currently have no community transmission, but all current cases are in quarantine at the border. There have been a few who have escaped quarantine and the public have been extremely strong in their condemnation (and belief that they should immediately sent to prison). When Covid was out in the community, as a country we went into lockdown. Unfortunately the virus made it into a rest home and the death rate there was extremely high due to the vulnerability of the residents. Our view as a nation was Be Kind. I can not understand why wearing a mask is such a big thing?
 

shunt2011

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I'm from NZ and I think many of us struggle to understand how people in other countries can be so selfish, stupid (in some cases). We currently have no community transmission, but all current cases are in quarantine at the border. There have been a few who have escaped quarantine and the public have been extremely strong in their condemnation (and belief that they should immediately sent to prison). When Covid was out in the community, as a country we went into lockdown. Unfortunately the virus made it into a rest home and the death rate there was extremely high due to the vulnerability of the residents. Our view as a nation was Be Kind. I can not understand why wearing a mask is such a big thing?
The problem is that the news is nothing but scare tactics and not always giving the best information. That on top of all those from all sides stating it's a political game. I know here I see so much hate and intolerance for others opinions and fears. Facebook has become a huge dumpster fire of hate. A lot of selfish people. Sadly, we'll never know the true statistics for infection rate or death for that matter. Here testing is a free for all. There are people being tested several times a week. That's certainly going to increase the numbers. We need a better way of tracking and reporting. Sadly it's become a true nightmare for many. Wear a darn mask. Quit whining. Have some compassion.
 

Megan

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We had an MCI tonight....Mass Casualty Incident. Multi-car accident and they were bringing them all to us. Christ i dont know how many i scanned. During my third patient, they called me to let me know that at least 7 of them tested positive for covid.

we have a radio system with ems...i kept hearing “hello this is medcom, can you accept one more, hello medcom, can you accept six? Hello medcom can you accept seven? Overhead pages....“Trauma alert, 5 by ground, two by air” “ Trauma alert two by ground”. I have videos of all the chaos. It was like a MASH unit.

Then find out they are ALL testing positive. I could have thrown up.

And i sent my very INEXPERIENCED partner up to the other scanner. I called her on her cell....(lots of curse words here that i will omit)...why is your n95 sitting here???? “ because i needed to clean it”.

I have no words for that

No emergencies during a pandemic.

im like you get down here and get your mask. So i called trauma to have them bring the rest to me, because nitwit doesn't have her ppe.
That sounds like a horrible night. It's crazy that they all turned up positive. I'm sending you good vibes that you can keep your health.

Also, I've read quite a few of your messages since you've joined. It literally has taken me until now to figure out your screen name...so I'm facepalming right now.
 

melinda48

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Have you looked at the figures? See below. The death rate for completed cases is 7% that is not low and this pandemic is far from over.

Sweden has said they would do things differently if they knew In the beginning what they know now. Their death rate per million population is even higher than the US and the surrounding countries have closed their borders to the Swedish.

if you want to copy anyone look at Vietnam. No 160 on the list below with 97 million people In crowded conditions and NO deaths. They closed borders early, socially distanced, everyone wears masks and they quarantined new arrivals, traced cases and quarantined people with the virus. They have learnt from the 1918 flu, Mers, SARS, and H1N1 how to respond to quickly spreading fatal diseases and they want to protect themselves and their families and communities as best they can.

How many people are there in the US? How many in Vietnam? Please view current data here:
 

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Megan

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The population of Vietnam is about 1/3 the population of the US....yet the population density of Vietnam is over 5x higher (so had the virus gotten as out of control there as it did here, they would have had a major problem). So I really don't understand your argument or what you are trying to point out.
 

penelopejane

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The government does not need to "get serious." The death rate is very very low. We have to have herd immunity. Let's look to Sweden as an example of how to deal with Covid.
How many people are there in the US? How many in Vietnam? Please view current data here:
I don't know where you got that chart from but it is not even remotely correct.
The US had 1001 covid deaths in the last 24 hours alone and 71,750 new cases. (16 July 2020)
Your chart seems to indicate that there were less than 10 deaths due to covid in the week ending 11 July. This is not correct.
See the corona virus data for the US here:

Compare the US to the rest of the world here:

This link tells you where the data comes from and who uses it. It is a trusted site world wide.

There are 97 million people in Vietnam and there are 330 million people in the USA. There are no deaths from covid-19 in Vietnam and there are now over 140,000 deaths from covid-19 in the US and that number is growing rapidly. It is very, very sad.

I was pointing out that Vietnam has learnt through past experience how to react to a pandemic threat and has performed really really well. Sweden thought it knew better but has learnt a bitter lesson and would not do the same thing if a new pandemic arose in future.

It will take 14 years, on current figures, for the US to get herd immunity. I do not want to even think about the number of deaths that would entail to reach. I think it is easier to stop the virus. The consequences of catching covid-19 are just being realised. The majority of covid-19 patients in a major Sydney Hospital (St Vincents) who contracted the disease since March and have been treated and sent home have still got lingering symptoms now. I think it is much better, for me at least, to avoid catching it.
 

asiaspyro

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For the USA, do be cautious about new covid numbers as they aren't going to the CDC anymore...

For me, in Colorado, starting tomorrow we're doing mandatory masks for everyone including customers. Before it was only employees who have to wear one. My sister in law is already throwing a fit over her "constitutional rights" or something >.>

If only our federal govt could make a full decision on freezing payments or even giving out funds but it feels like they're just trying to delay anything until they think covid will just blow over or something. Not to mention people who don't bat an eye at 165k people dead because 99% recovery is a better sounding number. It's a scary time.
 
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