Conditioner bar recipe with BTMS-50

Soapmaking Forum - Soap & Candle Forums

Help Support Soapmaking Forum - Soap & Candle Forums:

Stuart Graham

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
18
Reaction score
11
Location
Peru
Hi,

I want to try conditioner bars and looking around, I found two versions:

30gr | 30% BMTS-50
30gr | 30% Cetyl alcohol
15gr | 15% shea butter
15gr | 15% cocoa butter
4.5gr | 4.5% distilled water
1.0gr | 1% essential oil

40gr | 40% BTMS-50
43gr | 43% cocoa butter
10gr | 10% shea butter
6gr | 6% jojoba oil
40drops | 2% essential oil

The thing is, the author of the second ingredient said it lasts less than a non-solid conditioner. The problem is I can't find an open supplier of glass or metal cans (due to lockdown, or I'm bad searching online).
I'd go for the first, what do you think?
 

Stuart Graham

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
18
Reaction score
11
Location
Peru
There is one more recipe: Solid conditioner bars
BTMS is 25 and I have 50 so I guess I can use half of the original proportion and fill the rest with Cetly alcohol?
I decided to replace castor oil for cocoa butter. Still the price for 100 grams is quite high. I wonder how many washes would it last?
I don´t have coco-caprylate, silk protein and provitamin... so maybe discard them altogether

30 grams BTMS-50
40 grams cetyl-alcohol
10 grams cocoa butter
10 grams glycerin
1/2 teaspoon coco-caprylate
1/2 teaspoon hydrolysed silk protein
1/2 teaspoon provitamin B5
20 drops essential oil


isopropyl alcohol to kill bubbles
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
13,984
Reaction score
21,093
Location
USA
"...BTMS is 25 and I have 50 so I guess I can use half of the original proportion and fill the rest with Cetly alcohol? ..."

Unless you have experience to prove this is a good method of substitution, I personally would not change the % emulsifier called for in the recipe even for flowable lotions/conditioners. Conditioner bars are less finicky than lotions. For the first run, I'd just make the recipe as written except substitute the BTMS you have.

I also suggest converting all measurements to weight-based. Measurements as "1/2 tsp" of this and "20 drops" of that will not be helpful if you want to resize the recipe someday.

If you have coarse curly hair that responds well to fats, you might be okay with the one recipe that's got almost 60% fat. But if your hair is fine, I don't think you'll like that one at all -- you will want a formulation that has more oil-free conditioners (the BTMS and cetyl alcohol) and less fat.

Here is the latest formulation I've been using for my after-shower conditioner/lotion bar. I have fine, wavy hair that gets frizzy in humid weather.

Solid conditioner bar
All ingredient amounts are % by weight

Liquid oil … 15% … Avocado, meadowfoam, almond, etc.
Solid fat … 10 … Shea butter, cocoa butter, tallow, palm, mango butter, etc.

Hemisqualane … 10 … Defrizzing agent. Silicone alternative. Can sub any silicone suitable as a defrizzing ingredient, but check the usage info for suggested amounts. Optional. If omitting this, add a total of 10% to the emulsifier and/or thickener.

Conditioning emulsifier … 50 … Emulsifier. Oil free conditioner. BTMS is a brand name product
Cetyl alcohol … 10 … Thickener. Oil free conditioner. Alternate is stearic acid -- harder bar, more draggy feel

Colorant … 1 drop of ultramarine blue pigment mixed with glycerin (or equivalent) per 100 grams of product. Optional.
Panthenol … 3 … Reduces scalp itching, adds shine and strength to hair. Optional.
Phenonip … 0.5 … Or other oil-soluble preservative. *
Fragrance … 1.5 … Essential oil or fragrance oil. Don't overdo -- keep it light! Optional.

Total … 100%

* Phenonip is not temperature sensitive so it can be added with the other main ingredients. If you use another preservative, be sure to check the usage instructions -- if it is temp sensitive, then it has to be added with the fragrance when the temp drops to a safe level.

Mix all ingredients except fragrance (and temp-sensitive preservative, if using). Warm in microwave in 15-30 second bursts, stirring after each heating period until emulsifier and solid oil are fully melted and colorant (if using) is even and the sticky mixture is smooth with no lumps. Pour into small molds and let cool. To unmold, chill in the refrigerator for 1/2 hour or more and pop the bars out.

To use as a hair conditioner, rub lightly over wet hair and work the product into the hair strands. You can rinse lightly to remove some of the conditioner or you can just towel dry your hair to leave more of the conditioner. You can also use this product as a light skin lotion -- rub it over wet skin and lightly towel dry.

I recommend making 100 grams for a test batch. Any less and it's hard to measure accurately unless you have a really good scale. Any more and you may be stuck with a bunch of product you don't like -- 100 grams lasts me a LONG time.
 

aprice522

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
109
Reaction score
54
I have started to use a Etsy purchased conditioner bar and shampoo. I am a regular soaper, so I have some of the ingredients. It was really expensive for some really small product and would like to try and make my own things. I have been reading and reading and in the beginning of my search and interest...year or more ago (or even more!) but got discouraged when I couldn't find easily ingredients or understand what they were.
Today I was looking up basic lotion bar to make some (cracked heels need it!) and now I am waiting for them to harden and was browsing the site a little more and found your post....

I would like to try this since I have several of these ingredients.

Solid conditioner bar
All ingredient amounts are % by weight

HAVE--Liquid oil … 15% … Avocado, meadowfoam, almond, etc.
HAVE--Solid fat … 10 … Shea butter, cocoa butter, tallow, palm, mango butter, etc.

DON"T HAVE--Hemisqualane … 10 … Defrizzing agent. Silicone alternative. Can sub any silicone suitable as a defrizzing ingredient, but check the usage info for suggested amounts. Optional. If omitting this, add a total of 10% to the emulsifier and/or thickener.

Don't Have--Conditioning emulsifier … 50 … Emulsifier. Oil free conditioner. BTMS is a brand name product
HAVE stearic acid due to making shave soap--Cetyl alcohol … 10 … Thickener. Oil free conditioner. Alternate is stearic acid -- harder bar, more draggy feel

don't care--Colorant … 1 drop of ultramarine blue pigment mixed with glycerin (or equivalent) per 100 grams of product. Optional.
Don't HAVE--Panthenol … 3 … Reduces scalp itching, adds shine and strength to hair. Optional.
Don't HAVE--Phenonip … 0.5 … Or other oil-soluble preservative. *
HAVE--Fragrance … 1.5 … Essential oil or fragrance oil. Don't overdo -- keep it light! Optional.


So--I have the basics, I feel I might need the HEMISQUALANE because I am a frizzy head person...
I need Conditioning emulsifier --BTMS
Panthenol and Phenonip I would get too...

NOW--for my actual question--
So is there a good place to purchase all 4 of these at a decent price in the US? Sourcing was what stopped me last time and scares me with solid shampoo...but I feel I might be able to do make this conditioner bar!
 

atiz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
869
Reaction score
803
Location
Bloomington, IN
I would say you definitely need some BTMS (25 or 50, although they are not interchangeable), because you simply cannot make a conditioner bar without it. (There are some alternatives, but BTMS is nice and easy.) You also need a preservative; I tend to use optiphen, but phenonip should be a good alternative.
The others.... are nice, but optional.

I think I got all this stuff (and more) at lotioncrafter.com. It's not super cheap, but their shipping is not outrageous, and they carry most that you will ever need for these things. Also, most of these things go a long way. I have just run out of the pack of BTMS that I got a couple of years ago.
 

Candybee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2009
Messages
670
Reaction score
395
Location
Shenandoah Valley, VA
I am also formulating my recipe for a hair conditioner bar. Most recipes I found use BTMS 50. I have both 25 & 50. They are similar but not the same. This is a concern to me because BTMS 50 in my bars makes the price for a bar go up to $15-20 a bar.

I am trying to keep costs down as the final formulation will be for bars I plan to sell in the future.

So I did find a few recipes on Humblebee & Me that have either all BTMS 50, or 25-50 split at 50/50%, and even one that is all BTMS 25.

From what I have read in several sources is that you really need BTMS 50 and not 25. I find this all confusing and keep researching the components of these. I see the difference is BTMS contains one more ingredient that 25 does not have, butylene glycol. Is it so important?

Can someone help clarify how BTMS 50 is better for my hair conditioner bars as opposed to BTMS 25?

Right now I am formulating a recipe that will use both 50 & 25, more 25 than 50 actually. Trying to keep costs down. But I don't want to cut quality or the right 'feel' for a bar.

Am I just overthinking this or is there really that much of a difference between the two.
 

DeeAnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
13,984
Reaction score
21,093
Location
USA
I think it's a preference thing whether you'll like more fats in the conditioner or not. But I'd say it's more likely that a blend higher in fat might be nice on your type of hair.

I tried a higher fat version on my hair, thinking it would control the frizz. It kind of does, but at the cost of making my fine hair limp and even greasy -- ewww! An additive that's a silicone or silicone-alternative is a better choice for defrizzing without making my hair limp.
 

Latest posts

Top