Colours

[penelopejane]

Hi,
I have a problem with colours and would be really pleased to get some help solving the problem.
I made two soaps one right after the other and they are 10 weeks old.

Both the same recipe:
400g OO
300g AO
100g RBO
100g Shea Butter
100g Castor
295 g Water
126g Lye
3% SF
30% Lye concentration
Both 50% GM
Both had 1/2 tsp BB liquid pigment dispersion Sunflower yellow for CP
and 2 drops of BB liquid pigment dispersion Carmine for CP mixed into 2/3 of the batter.Both mixed to light trace and CPOP - oven heated to 100* turned off when soap went in.

Soap 1 had 25g Neroli and Shea Blossom FO and 2 tsp salt added to the batter.

Soap 2 had no fragrance and no salt at all.

They looked lovely to start with and until I started using them.

Soap 1 has lost its colour and faded to natural cream/white and soap 2 is starting to lose its colour, just a bit more slowly. It has leeched out as a yellow liquid from about 1/8 inch deep in the soap. As soon as you cut it is starts to leech away.

Surely this can't be normal,can it? 1/2 tsp didn't seem that much - it didn't make it bright yellow or anything. The website says you can use 1/2 tsp per 250g soap. I used 1/2 tsp for 700g OIL. so way less than they recommended. Have I done something wrong?

Is there a more reliable way to get colours that stick in soap?

 

[SuzieOz]

That's weird - I use what I believe is the BB liquid dispersion colours repackaged for Aussie Soap Supplies - I've had no trouble with the Carmine. Two drops doesn't seem like much though - did you see a noticeable difference between the 3/4 portion with the carmine and the rest of the yellow before you put it in the oven?

I haven't tried Sunflower Yellow, but I have tried Yellow and I hate it. I won't buy it again. I have some yellow soap which seems to have faded in spots, and the colour itself seems to have gone slightly brownish - not a good look. I haven't had a problem with it leeching out like you describe though. I hope you find the answer to the dilemma!

I do love the Brites though, I've had lovely success with those.

 

[fuzz-juzz]

I haven't used any of the dispersed colours from Aussie soap supplies, so I can't really comment on those.
I had great experience with their powdered colours, from neons, to micas and clays.
Some colours do mellow out after a while though, there's nothing you can do...

 

[SuzieOz]

I've been thinking about trying the neon powders, as some of the liquid ones dry up a bit in the bottle over time. Can't afford it at the moment though ... *sigh*

 

[fuzz-juzz]

I've been thinking about trying the neon powders, as some of the liquid ones dry up a bit in the bottle over time. Can't afford it at the moment though ... *sigh*

Have you tried My mica obsession, their colours are generally half price of those at ASS and there's no minimum order. Plus, they give out samples with every purchase.
Same with Ebay, couple of sellers here in Oz have cheaper good quality colours.

 

[Obsidian]

If you check the website http://www.aussiesoapsupplies.com.au/liquid-pigment-dispersion-set.html under test results it says the carmine and yellow needs to be used at a higher rate as they pull back, I'm guessing that means they fade.

 

[shunt2011]

I agree that you are not using enough color to make it stay. It's fading from the reaction to the High PH over time. I prefer micas, aquamarines, oxides for coloring. I had some liquid colorants and it just took too much to obtain and keep the colors I wanted.

 

[penelopejane]

The colour is weeping out. If I had more it would just weep faster I think.

I added the carmine red to the yellow to get the colour I wanted.

I won't be using them again that's for sure but what a waste!
I am having so much trouble with colours. The ultramarine pigments make my soap soft at the rate you need for a good colour.

I guess I will try the micas (thanks for the link - I will check it out) and maybe the brights. My family doesn't like the clays. [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]

 

[SuzieOz]

I have looked at that mica site fuzz-juzz - so I take it you've purchased from them? It looks fantastic - so many to choose from. I haven't as yet used micas as a colourant so what's your experience, do they work well?

And please someone clarify - are micas natural or not? I thought they were but someone in another post was saying they're not. I know some have synthetic colourant added, (such as the shamrock green), but others don't. So are the ones without the colourant added natural?

 

[shunt2011]

I use and love Micas. However, they are not natural. I love the colors I get to make me soaps pretty

 

[fuzz-juzz]

Yes SusieOz, I did few times and was really happy with the quality.
One of the purple ones did morhp but it came back again after few days of curing (that was interesting )
I prefer powdered colours as little really goes a long way, especially if you don't want brightly coloured soap.
Neons are great for that, only a pinch will give soap a really nice soft colour.
I like to keep colours of my soaps sort of pastel and I still have some colours that I bought 3 years ago in 20gr packets.

With My mica obsession you can also order through Facebook, it's faster IMO.

Micas aren't natural but those from reputable suppliers are all tested on skin and safe to use. It's same with FOs.
I am happy to make soap natural as I can using oils and lye but colours and FOs are where I tend to give in. White soaps would be quite boring.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

And please someone clarify - are micas natural or not? I thought they were but someone in another post was saying they're not. I know some have synthetic colourant added, (such as the shamrock green), but others don't. So are the ones without the colourant added natural?

It depends on how you feel about nature equivalent colorants like oxides and ultramarines. Micas contain mica and colorants. The colorants can be anything under the sun. Sometimes they are completely unnnatural like FD&C dyes and sometimes they are oxides and such.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Not to mention the whole topic of "nature equivalent". While a mica made in a factory is of course cleaner etc than one formed by nature, I don't think people would accept a steak that was pieced together from proteins in a factory as being "natural" even though it is identical to a real steak.......

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Not to mention the whole topic of "nature equivalent". While a mica made in a factory is of course cleaner etc than one formed by nature, I don't think people would accept a steak that was pieced together from proteins in a factory as being "natural" even though it is identical to a real steak.......

The mica itself is mined, I think. That component would be natural but is only there for the shimmer. The rest of the product is colorants, which can be anything. All the colorants found in mica products are also used individually, the considerations being the same in either case.

So I think we are really just discussing the "nature equivalent" colorants, be they found in micas or used alone. They invoke your steak scenario, but it's not quite that bad because they are simple mineral compounds and there is a good angle to explaining them if people ask.

I would point out that I am using colorants that do exist in nature, but that those aren't allowed in many products because they can contain harmful impurities. I use the cosmetic grade laboratory versions that are very pure and safe.

I don't suppose that will satisfy everyone on the matter of naturalness, but it's a pretty good pitch.

 

[SuzieOz]

Ok, so what about this quote from SoapQueen: "The majority of Bramble Berry’s micas contain only mica and iron oxides, which both readily occur in nature and can be considered natural. If the mica is colored with FD&C colorants, the mica is not considered natural."

This is why I'm confused - according to this quote micas are natural unless they have FD&C colourants added, which only a few of their micas do. Am I on the wrong track here? ...

This is the link: https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...tricks/sunday-night-spotlight-mica-colorants/

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Ok, so what about this quote from SoapQueen: "The majority of Bramble Berry’s micas contain only mica and iron oxides, which both readily occur in nature and can be considered natural. If the mica is colored with FD&C colorants, the mica is not considered natural."

This is why I'm confused - according to this quote micas are natural unless they have FD&C colourants added, which only a few of their micas do. Am I on the wrong track here? ...

This is the link: https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...tricks/sunday-night-spotlight-mica-colorants/

Suppliers normally list the ingredients for each mica. If you feel okay with nature-equivalent, then you can use the ones where the ingredients only include mica, oxides (including titanium dioxide) and ultramarines. I think a few of the oxides don't exist in nature, but they are essentially similar to the ones that do.

If you see FD&C or D&C dyes or weird neon colorants, those are solidly not considered natural.

 

[lisajudy2009]

The oxides aren't technically natural. They are replications of what is found in nature. I read this on one of the sites that sells: "Staff Answer Iron oxides are naturally occurring, however, when found in nature they contain impurities that would be dangerous. Oxides used in cosmetics are "nature identical" which means it has the same structural components, but is created in a lab to ensure the product is free of impurities. Because the term "all natural" is not regulated, it is up to each individual to determine what they consider natural. Oxides are generally recognized as being a natural product."

 

[SuzieOz]

Thank you very much for this information, it makes more sense to me now.
Personally I love experimenting with all sorts of colours (provided I know they are safe for skin), but I don't want to mislead anyone else, eg. customers. I'm not sure whether to say "natural colours" on my ingredient list or not (when I'm using oxides and ultramarines).

 

[penelopejane]

Thank you very much for this information, it makes more sense to me now.
Personally I love experimenting with all sorts of colours (provided I know they are safe for skin), but I don't want to mislead anyone else, eg. customers. I'm not sure whether to say "natural colours" on my ingredient list or not (when I'm using oxides and ultramarines).

I don't want to be controversial but I find that quite a bit of the information on the soap queen site is a bit doubtful. Her videos show her mixing things in pyrex and without gloves and some of her recipes work only for her - or so the reviews seem to indicate.

I think soaping 101 videos seem to be a more reliable source.
This is just my opinion.