Coffee soap - Strange things happening

[LiliKuenca]

Hi all
I have one question I could use some help with (Q#1) and another one (Q#2) just more "has somebody seen this before" kind of question. My recipe is at the end (if you are still with me by then =)

I made a coffee replacement soap last night. It reached traced well and didn't seem to take any less time than usual (I've made this recipe a few times already). Next day (after 12 hours) when I cut it two strange things happened:
1) It was hard like it has been curing for a week and it was quite brittle. I compared it with another one I did last week and the older one wasn't brittle at all (same conditions, slightly warmer oils- 38degC, no colour or scent). Could it be that the combination of coffee and cocoa powder changed the hardness of the resultant soap? what else could it be?

2) when I took it out of the mold the soap colour was like cafe latte. At the cut the cocoa had taken over. I used the planner because it didn't look tidy enough, and this is the freaky part, the colour changed to the cafe latte I saw first to then, within seconds, change again to cocoa colour. This happened just before my eyes!!! ... so weird. I suppose it has to do with the air getting in contact with the soap and oxidising something??? has anybody seen this before?

Recipe:
SF: 5%, Unscented
Olive oil: 250 gr (50%)
Coconut oil: 125 gr (25%)
Shea butter: 75 gr (15%)
Cocoa butter: 50 gr (10%)

Masterbatch lye solution (1:1) 138 gr
Extra water: 71 gr to achieve 33% lye concentration. I replaced this amount for expresso made with 2 tablespoons of instant coffee).
Added coffee to the lye solution and mixed it with oils (Oil temperature: 34.5degC, Lye-coffee temperature 39degC). I then I added 1.5 tablespoon of cocoa powder (unsweetened) to make it darker.

 

[Ladka]

If cocoa powder is what I call cacao powder: I used the powder and it made the soap brittle. I believe I should have wetted the powder and not just mix it into batter.

 

[DeeAnna]

I use cocoa (cacao) powder as my brown colorant.

I have not noticed that it makes my soap brittle, but I don't think I use as much as you. You said, if I'm doing the math correctly, that you used 1.5 tablespoons per 500 g fat. I probably used no more than 2 teaspoons cocoa powder per 500 g fat -- less than half what you used.

I have seen the color change you describe -- light cafe au lait color at first but quickly darkens. Fun to watch, isn't it?

 

[Zing]

It's freaky deaky, amiright? When I soap with baking cocoa powder or rosehips powder, I cut and there is a "rind" or dark color all along the outside perimeter. And then before my eyes, the dark color moves inward!
I frequently will soap with brewed coffee liquid and coffee grounds and do not have any issues with hardness or brittleness.

 

[lsg]

I am guessing the brittleness was caused by the cocoa powder. I have soaped with strong liquid coffee as a replacement for water without any problem. You did use 25% butters which might cause the soap to be a little brittle.

 

[LiliKuenca]

Thank you all for your replies.

I use cocoa (cacao) powder as my brown colorant.

I have not noticed that it makes my soap brittle, but I don't think I use as much as you. You said, if I'm doing the math correctly, that you used 1.5 tablespoons per 500 g fat. I probably used no more than 2 teaspoons cocoa powder per 500 g fat -- less than half what you used.

I have seen the color change you describe -- light cafe au lait color at first but quickly darkens. Fun to watch, isn't it?

@DeeAnna: Yes it was fascinating to watch. I couldn't believe my eyes.

I am guessing the brittleness was caused by the cocoa powder. I have soaped with strong liquid coffee as a replacement for water without any problem. You did use 25% butters which might cause the soap to be a little brittle.

Is there anything on my recipe, apart from the 25% butters that I may be doing wrong or that probably I should change? Probably going a bit higher on the olive oil?
In any case, I'll try a stronger coffee brew and less cocoa powder.
Thank you all

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm not sure your cocoa butter is the problem -- other soap makers use far more than you do and I don't recall hearing them talk about the soap being brittle. If you like the soap, I'd not mess with success.

I think I'd try less cocoa powder and see if that helps. It's good to change one thing at a time to learn what works and what doesn't.

 

[Arimara]

I'm more likely to blame the cocoa powder on this result. I have used cocoa butter @25% and my soap was not brittle. I have used way more cocoa powder than I needed before- that was a hot mess, almost literally, in the showers.

 

[Becky1024]

I have used coffee and cocoa powder. Never in the same recipe, and I only use cocoa powder up to about a teaspoon per pound. Neither have caused the loaf to get extremely hard so I don't know what caused your problem.

Morphing colors is fascinating! My coffee soap turns very dark brown as it saponifies and then slowly lightens up and I believe it is due to the water in the bar evaporating. After about 2 weeks the bars are light brown. My bars with cocoa powder start purplish brown and after a couple of days the purple is gone, leaving brown. Wish I could find a way to keep the purple tint!

 

[Arimara]

I have used coffee and cocoa powder. Never in the same recipe, and I only use cocoa powder up to about a teaspoon per pound. Neither have caused the loaf to get extremely hard so I don't know what caused your problem.

Morphing colors is fascinating! My coffee soap turns very dark brown as it saponifies and then slowly lightens up and I believe it is due to the water in the bar evaporating. After about 2 weeks the bars are light brown. My bars with cocoa powder start purplish brown and after a couple of days the purple is gone, leaving brown. Wish I could find a way to keep the purple tint!

I don't think it's the water evaporating causing the soap to lighten. I think that change is still a chemical one. Most of my regular bars should have lighten to a whitely white instead of remaining creamy in color if that was the case. Still, cocoa powder helps maintain the "coffee color" that gets lost all too easily. I prefer it to wasting a discoloring FO in coffee soap.