Cocoa Butter Mistake

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MrsZ

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I was getting ready to reorder cocoa butter wafers from WSP. I've made quite a few batches of soap with them, I use cocoa butter at 10%.

This time as I read it, I noticed that the SAP value of the wafers is different than regular cocoa butter.

Cocoa butter wafers: SAP NaOH .138, SAP KOH .194

Cocoa butter SAP on soapcalc: SAP NaOH .120, SAP KOH .168

Did I mess up my soap terribly? I have a cold and my brain isn't quite up to the task of figuring out the math myself. Does anyone know what difference this mistake made to my soap?

My recipe is:
40% lard
25% sweet almond oil, or RBO, or Olive oil, or Avocado oil (yes, I've run each oil through soapcalc to correct for sap differences between liquid oils)
20% coconut oil
10% cocoa butter
5% castor oil

35% lye concentration with a 5% superfat


ETA: My husband just pointed out to me that I just have a higher superfat. How do I determine just how much difference though? And how do I correct my recipe for next time? Thanks in advance!
 
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Did I mess up my soap terribly?
No.

The only dubious thing here is that you somehow got the wrong SAP numbers for CB. According to the OilList, cocoa butter is at K-Na 0.194-0.138, just like the figures that WSP and other soap calculators are giving. It seems that somehow you mixed up cocoa butter with abyssinia oil, that has said 0.168-0.120 SAP (SoapCalc's questionable default SAP display – you probably just did one click too few). As long as you were careful in your final recipe, you're fine.
 

MrsZ

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No.

The only dubious thing here is that you somehow got the wrong SAP numbers for CB. According to the OilList, cocoa butter is at K-Na 0.194-0.138, just like the figures that WSP and other soap calculators are giving. It seems that somehow you mixed up cocoa butter with abyssinia oil, that has said 0.168-0.120 SAP (SoapCalc's questionable default SAP display – you probably just did one click too few). As long as you were careful in your final recipe, you're fine.
That's a relief, thank you.

In Soapcalc, I clicked on cocoa butter, and looked at what it showed the SAP value to be. Is there another step I'm supposed to follow as well?

Screenshot_20210816-120155-218.png


I appreciate your help. :)
 

Marsi

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could you please provide a link to the screen you have taken a screenshot of?

the NaOH SAP value for Cocoa Butter is approximately 0.138 not 0.120
*edited to add - I agree with dibbles - i think the problem is with a funky app/calculator

ETA: My husband just pointed out to me that I just have a higher superfat. How do I determine just how much difference though? And how do I correct my recipe for next time? Thanks in advance!

calculate your superfat
enter it into a soapcalculator, use abssinyan oil (as ResolvableOil has pointed out, it has the same NaOH SAP value of 0.120 as you used)
write down how much NaOH the incorrect recipe requires

adjust this recipe to replace the abssinyan oil with cocoa butter wafers (make sure that the NaOH SAP value is 0.138)

increase the superfat number (your husband is correct - the soap should have a higher superfat)
until your recipe has the same NaOH number as your abssinyan oil version
 
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I was reading this post (ok, I was sticking my soapy nose in! 🧼) and decided to go see if I got the same SAP results for CB as OP, and yep. See the screenshot below.
I'm not using an app, just my smartphone browser, Chrome, updated in the background constantly. I opened a new tab, navigated to soapcalc.net, pulled up cocoa butter in the options "Oils, Butters and Fats", and those values came up.
 

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MrsZ

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Are you using an app? I wonder if there might be something funky going on if you are. This is what I see on my desktop:

View attachment 60113
Ok,this is strange. No, I'm using soapcalc.net on chrome browser on my phone. Out of curiosity, I just booted up my desktop and looked at the SAP value of cocoa butter on desktop, and it matches what you just showed. NaOH .138, KOH .194.

Very interesting, seems to be a mobile vs desktop issue?

I printed all my recipes from my desktop, so maybe there is no issue after all.
 

MrsZ

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could you please provide a link to the screen you have taken a screenshot of?

the NaOH SAP value for Cocoa Butter is approximately 0.138 not 0.120
*edited to add - I agree with dibbles - i think the problem is with a funky app/calculator



calculate your superfat
enter it into a soapcalculator, use abssinyan oil (as ResolvableOil has pointed out, it has the same NaOH SAP value of 0.120 as you used)
write down how much NaOH the incorrect recipe requires

adjust this recipe to replace the abssinyan oil with cocoa butter wafers (make sure that the NaOH SAP value is 0.138)

increase the superfat number (your husband is correct - the soap should have a higher superfat)
until your recipe has the same NaOH number as your abssinyan oil version
Here is the link: SoapCalc

And here is my recipe:
IMG_20210816_130027471.jpg


I do think it's my phone being weird. WSP said that it has a different profile than regular cocoa butter, and then gave the SAP. I tried to confirm on my phone that it was the same. So strange! Thank you for your advice.
 

MrsZ

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I was reading this post (ok, I was sticking my soapy nose in! 🧼) and decided to go see if I got the same SAP results for CB as OP, and yep. See the screenshot below.
I'm not using an app, just my smartphone browser, Chrome, updated in the background constantly. I opened a new tab, navigated to soapcalc.net, pulled up cocoa butter in the options "Oils, Butters and Fats", and those values came up.
Thank you for checking as well! It does seem like maybe it is an issue on the phone.
 

Marsi

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Here is the link: SoapCalc

And here is my recipe: (*deleted)

I do think it's my phone being weird. WSP said that it has a different profile than regular cocoa butter, and then gave the SAP. I tried to confirm on my phone that it was the same. So strange! Thank you for your advice.
thanks for that MrsZ
yes, it is the calculator on your phone
your increased superfat just over 1%

unasked for additional comment
your water content is high (26% lye concentration)
this is also a calculator issue
the calculator defaults to a disfunctional method, water as percentage of oil

lye percentage or lye ratio gives more predictable results across different recipes
if you change to using lye percentage
anything around 30% to 33% will work well for your recipe

reasons
glycerin rivers and ash is very common at 26% lye concentration
increasing the lye concentration can help stop soap overheating
one downside - you might need to insulate to gel
 

MrsZ

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thanks for that MrsZ
yes, it is the calculator on your phone
your increased superfat just over 1%

unasked for additional comment
your water content is high (26% lye concentration)
this is also a calculator issue
the calculator defaults to a disfunctional method, water as percentage of oil

lye percentage or lye ratio gives more predictable results across different recipes
if you change to using lye percentage
anything around 30% to 33% will work well for your recipe

reasons
glycerin rivers and ash is very common at 26% lye concentration
increasing the lye concentration can help stop soap overheating
one downside - you might need to insulate to gel
Thank you. I always use 35% lye concentration in my soaps, as in the picture of my recipe I posted above. In the link I posted, the only thing I had done was look at the SAP of cocoa butter.

I will not trust soapcalc.net on my phone for recipes after this. :) Thanks all for helping me figure this out.
 

MrsZ

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@MrsZ or @Iluminameluna Can you check on mobile if only cocoa butter is affected, or in fact any oil just defaults to the 0.120 value? (Either would be very strange indeed)
I think I figured it out. When you select an oil from the drop-down, (at least on my phone) it shows the SAP value last shown. If I click the drop-down oil menu again and close it, then the SAP value updates correctly. But just clicking the oil name does not update the shown SAP values.

All oils are affected that way on my phone.

I hope I explained this well enough, I'm not good at explanations.
 
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@MrsZ or @Iluminameluna Can you check on mobile if only cocoa butter is affected, or in fact any oil just defaults to the 0.120 value? (Either would be very strange indeed)
It's not a question of wrong info being typed up. It's an issue of web interface layout for phones. I clicked several different oils and the SAP values for previously selected oils were displayed. I do not use chrome so I used Samsung's default browser. OP should contact the owner's of the site to report the problem and use a desktop/laptop to use soapcalc
 

Marsi

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terrific news - appears it is a display issue, not a calculation issue

i am happy you have this solved MrsZ
 
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I was reading this post (ok, I was sticking my soapy nose in! 🧼) and decided to go see if I got the same SAP results for CB as OP, and yep. See the screenshot below.
I'm not using an app, just my smartphone browser, Chrome, updated in the background constantly. I opened a new tab, navigated to soapcalc.net, pulled up cocoa butter in the options "Oils, Butters and Fats", and those values came up.
I did the same and came up with the same values on my iPad - using Safari as my browser.
 
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I first brought up my Chrome page, saved from when I got the SAP values day before yesterday for CB. The text field was blank, but the SAP value was the same as before.
I recycled the page by tapping the circle with the arrow turning counterclockwise, and I picked "Beeswax". That gave me the correct answer. I attach the screenshot.
So I too believe it's a question of the page that's stuck in the site's cache, and if you don't refresh the page when you begin your soap recipe, you might end up with a faulty soap recipe. I couldn't be sure though, because I've never used a laptop or desktop to create my recipes, only smartphones.
 

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