Clay as additives

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rparrny

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Got my order yesterday from Brambleberry...hate those shipping charges, I guess I'm spoiled by amazon. I think it was Ally that suggested the black oxide (yup, I'm gonna try that black and white bar again) and while I was browsing I picked up some small amounts of clay (rose and bentonite) to experiment with. Now my only experience with bentonite clay is in some bath bombs and I know it has drying qualities. So my question is twofold: 1. How much would I put in a 2 pound batch? Would I choose a formula that is very moisturizing? Some of my recipes are very soft and moisturizing for my sensitive skin...will this harden my bars at all (okay, I know that's three and not twofold but I thought of this later).
BTW, BB sent me a sample of a FO that I really like...honeysuckle...we have them all over the place here and sometimes I just cut a branch and inhale it while relaxing on the deck...one whiff of that bottle and I was transported to the deck relaxing...offset the annoyance of the shipping charges...
 

KristaMarie

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I feel the same way about shipping; spoiled by Amazon. I'm pretty much guaranteed to spend whatever it takes to get free shipping with companies that offer it with a minimum purchase.
In a 2lb batch, I would use 2T of either clay. The formula shouldn't make a HUGE difference, but it depends on your skin. I haven't used bentonite, only rose and French green and haven't noticed any extra drying effect.
In my experience, you won't get a harder bar from the clay. Generally, I just use them for color
 

Obsidian

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I've used bentonite in soap before at 1 tsp PPO and it was drying. I'm not a fan of clay to begin with but bentonite is my least favorite in soap, drying and it really didn't add any color. I would only use it now in soap made for oily skin.

Make sure you add water and blend out any lumps before adding it to your soap. The kaolin you can add dry, it mixes well but the bentonite clumps something terrible.

No, the clay will not harden you soap.
 

snappyllama

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I totally agree with KristaMarie and Obsidian. Bentonite does seem drying. I use Kaolin in a lot of my soaps. I think it slightly reduces lather (so slight I'm the only one that notices), but it does add some slickness to the bar. Kaolin makes it glide along the skin easier. Thinking on it now, maybe that's part of the reason for lather reduction... Perhaps the bar doesn't catch against hair/skin and shear off bits as quickly, so it needs more rubbing to build the bubbles. Hrmn :think:

If you're looking for hardening to get soap out of the mold faster/easier... try salt or sodium lactate.
 

rparrny

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I feel the same way about shipping; spoiled by Amazon. I'm pretty much guaranteed to spend whatever it takes to get free shipping with companies that offer it with a minimum purchase.
In a 2lb batch, I would use 2T of either clay. The formula shouldn't make a HUGE difference, but it depends on your skin. I haven't used bentonite, only rose and French green and haven't noticed any extra drying effect.
In my experience, you won't get a harder bar from the clay. Generally, I just use them for color
Yeah I basically got them for color (at least the rose) but the herbalist wonders if a soap with bentonite could do any detoxifying at all...had to see for myself. Bummed that it won't harden my bars, mine are softer than I would like but great on my sensitive skin.
 

rparrny

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I've used bentonite in soap before at 1 tsp PPO and it was drying. I'm not a fan of clay to begin with but bentonite is my least favorite in soap, drying and it really didn't add any color. I would only use it now in soap made for oily skin.

Make sure you add water and blend out any lumps before adding it to your soap. The kaolin you can add dry, it mixes well but the bentonite clumps something terrible.

No, the clay will not harden you soap.
You've convinced me to hold the bentonite for the bath bombs. And ty for the heads up about the lumps.
 

not_ally

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R, I'm not sure if you have been involved in any of the frequent "wow, I love lard" threads, but have you tried it yet? If you are not opposed to it on grounds of principle, it is very close to being the perfect soaping oil, especially if you have sensitive/dry skin. It also makes a light, hard bar.
 

rparrny

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I totally agree with KristaMarie and Obsidian. Bentonite does seem drying. I use Kaolin in a lot of my soaps. I think it slightly reduces lather (so slight I'm the only one that notices), but it does add some slickness to the bar. Kaolin makes it glide along the skin easier. Thinking on it now, maybe that's part of the reason for lather reduction... Perhaps the bar doesn't catch against hair/skin and shear off bits as quickly, so it needs more rubbing to build the bubbles. Hrmn :think:

If you're looking for hardening to get soap out of the mold faster/easier... try salt or sodium lactate.
Yes you have all convinced me to ditch the bentonite...but the kaolin has got me interested...is it colored?
 

snappyllama

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Mine is a very light gray (almost white) color, though I think you can buy them in different colors.

And as not_ally said: LARD- it's what's for soaping.
 

rparrny

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R, I'm not sure if you have been involved in any of the frequent "wow, I love lard" threads, but have you tried it yet? If you are not opposed to it on grounds of principle, it is very close to being the perfect soaping oil, especially if you have sensitive/dry skin. It also makes a light, hard bar.
I am SO dying to try it. My problem is that I have a kosher kitchen but I live in an area where there are no kosher shops (the family joke is I am one of 10 Jews in Suffolk county). Now I checked with the Rabbi and I don't need a tallow soap to be kosher but if I'm making soap in my kitchen that tallow must be kosher...as for lard...not allowed in this kitchen unfortunately. So now I have to wait until my monthly trek to Jewland, a 90 minute drive to get some kosher tallow. I have rendered tallow before, I have the butcher grind it up and then I just pop it in the crockpot overnight and strain in the morning...piece of cake. The sin is that because Jews use so much tallow for other things, they actually charge you a dollar a pound for it....
 

not_ally

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You live in NY and are one of 10 Jewish families in the area? What happened there :)? $1 a lb is not a bad price for tallow, if you don't have to pay shipping. I really respect people who keep kosher, it is a constant, living reminder of important things. But man, I am kind of glad that I don't have to just b/c of the lard
:)

ETA: But tallow is really good too. I know a couple of people posted interesting recipes for it here recently, I will try to find.
 

Jstar

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Tallow is the next best thing to Lard imo...I use it all the time and it gives me nice hard white bars with fluffy to creamy bubbles..slow tracing like lard..I love it.

I also use Kaolin clay, and mine is white..I feel it gives some conditioning to my skin since it is the least oil absorbing of all the clays. I'd like to try the rose clay tho one day too..heard it colors wonderfully.
 

rparrny

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You live in NY and are one of 10 Jewish families in the area? What happened there :)? I really respect people who keep kosher, it is a constant, living reminder of important things. But man, I am kind of glad that I don't have to just b/c of the lard
:)
Well I'm sure there are more Jews in the area but very few that are observant in the ways of kosher. I myself was raised Christian and have only been observant for the past five years and I really miss bacon...
 

KristaMarie

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I also use Kaolin clay, and mine is white..I feel it gives some conditioning to my skin since it is the least oil absorbing of all the clays. I'd like to try the rose clay tho one day too..heard it colors wonderfully.
It does! Rose clay gives the most perfect, natural pink. I love it
 

Jstar

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It does! Rose clay gives the most perfect, natural pink. I love it
Awesome! When I get the funds saved up to get another order I will see about getting some..I get my kaolin at SoapGoods..Im going there now to make sure they have the rose :)

ETA: Hmm..they have the French Pink Clay..is that the same thing?
 
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KristaMarie

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I tried to look it up, but it just made things more confusing. Lol. There's also a French Rose Clay! I'm not sure if those are three different clays or just different terminology. Sooo I say buy it, soap it, and show us pictures.
If you want, share a link to your French Pink Clay and I'll compare the color/description to my rose clay
 

Spice

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Tallow is the next best thing to Lard imo...I use it all the time and it gives me nice hard white bars with fluffy to creamy bubbles..slow tracing like lard..I love it.

I also use Kaolin clay, and mine is white..I feel it gives some conditioning to my skin since it is the least oil absorbing of all the clays. I'd like to try the rose clay tho one day too..heard it colors wonderfully.
I just got kaolin clay white, my mold is 53 oz oils, what would be a good measure. I dont want to lose my lather or make it drying. I bought because I want to see if it will color my soap a bit whiter too.:smile:
 

Dahila

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I use lard and tallow together and still can not decide which one is better:) 40% lard, 30 tallow, I had done 40 tallow and 30 lard , and only tallow, they all are awesome. I add kaolin (white) to all my soaps, 1/2 tsp PPO
 

Spice

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I use lard and tallow together and still can not decide which one is better:) 40% lard, 30 tallow, I had done 40 tallow and 30 lard , and only tallow, they all are awesome. I add kaolin (white) to all my soaps, 1/2 tsp PPO
Dahila, do you first mix in oil then pour into soap batter?
 

Dahila

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I slurry it with a bit of water (take some out before you add lye) then add to my oils, mix well :)) I love kaolin in my soaps , gives the slipery sensation to skin:))
 

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