Cat Litter Problems Solved

[lenarenee]

Do be careful with elderly cats, cats with asthma or are prone to respiratory infection if the horse bedding/cat litter is pine. The pine vapor and dust particles are very problematic for them.

And it can be deadly for little hamsters and such - must use aspen instead.

Tried to use the horse pellets for a large guinea pig cage when the vet said it would be safe - but one of them started showing signs of respiratory distress so out that went.

 

[Saponista]

I use the pine litter too. I tried some of the other options and they all smelled awful! I will see if I can find the horse bedding though as that's a ridiculously cheap price compared to bags of cat litter! Thank you for the tips

 

[penelopejane]

Put one pellet filled box next to each of the two clay filled litter boxes I have for my five cats ... and we'll see what happens.

Cleo, my opinionated nosy gray girl cat, checked the pine litter, but didn't seem impressed. But give it time.

DeeAnna, I find if you want to change a fussy cats litter (or food) mix a substantial amount of the old litter in with the new and gradually reduce the amount of old litter over a week or more. Infiltration/change by stealth.

 

[DeeAnna]

I put a large clump of pee from the clay litter into one of the new pine litter boxes last night. Someone used that box sometime in the night. Yay!

Thanks for the tip about mixing the litters if needed, PenelopeJane -- I'm hoping I can encourage the cats to make the switch without mixing, but I have two elderly fellows who are set in their ways and might need more of a hint.

I now understand how the pine can be dusty, but it doesn't seem to be any more dusty than the clumping litter. Agreed that clay dust is not the same as pine dust, however. I used aspen shavings for my birds too, since they are sensitive to pine resin like your guinea pigs. I can see that Brewer George's screened litter pan and faithful daily cleaning would help by removing the broken down pellets before they dry out.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

The phenols from pine resin can be a problem for cats - especially when there is inadequate ventilation such as in a covered box. However, shaved pine bedding is NOT the same as the compressed pine pellets vis-à-vis dust and resin. The compression process to make the pellets creates very high heat that destroys the resin. They are, in fact, held together by the resin and lignin activated by the heat of compression.

As for training the cats to use the new litter, I just gave them the sink-or-swim treatment. They swam.

 

[lenarenee]

The phenols from pine resin can be a problem for cats - especially when there is inadequate ventilation such as in a covered box. However, shaved pine bedding is NOT the same as the compressed pine pellets vis-à-vis dust and resin. The compression process to make the pellets creates very high heat that destroys the resin. They are, in fact, held together by the resin and lignin activated by the heat of compression.

As for training the cats to use the new litter, I just gave them the sink-or-swim treatment. They swam.

Right, there's a difference between wood chip bedding and pellets. However I was talking about the pine pellets...the stuff sold as litter and horse bedding.

Heres what I know: my former veterinarian did feline research at Cornell University, and he's done autopsies ...well...I'll skip that. But he believes long term exposure to the pine pellets causes lung issues as he's found pine residue in lungs of deceased cats. (Uh....I don't believe he was saying pine pellets caused the deaths.his speciality was kidney disease) He advised me to stop using it for my elderly cat because of her age and susceptibility to infection.


The horse bedding we saw in Virginia and California has a strong pine scent, so the heat didn't destroy everything. I do know that not all horse bedding is pine.

This reminds me we need to run down to our farm supply store for guinea pig hay. Half the price of pet store stuff and LOTS fresher!

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Ah, so you're talking about the dust itself. I haven't heard anything about that, just the phenol issue. Hopefully my removing it every day will mitigate that possibility. Thanks for the info.

 

[lenarenee]

Ah, so you're talking about the dust itself. I haven't heard anything about that, just the phenol issue. Hopefully my removing it every day will mitigate that possibility. Thanks for the info.

You know - I'm really not sure which was the problem. It was a conversation we had 5 years ago.
I know he advised owners of asthmatic, elderly, and infection prone cats to not use the pine litters.

You sound very attentive to your cat and its litter box, so I'm sure you'll know what's safe your cat.

I'm definitely sure that small animals like hamster, gerbils are hugely affected by the pine chips and pine pellets.

 

[nsmar4211]

Chiming in with a completely different viewpoint.

My older cat is asthmatic. Was misdiagnosed as hairballs for years by my normal (ex) vet. New vets all wanted to run $400 worth of blood tests before even looking at him even after I told them I suspected asthma. Finally found a vet who agreed to at least *look* at him... he had an attack right on the table and viola! Asthma. We're talking inhaler twice a day and emergency inhaler several times a week strength asthma.

One thing that I started experimenting with was his litter. I tried every litter on the shelf (and the wheat stuff is nastyyyyyy with urine) at the local store. One day I was looking at the pine stuff I used on the goat's sleeping areas....hrmm. Low dust and cheap. Switched him over to that by using it 50/50 for a week with what he was currently on and then the next week it was sink or swim...he swam. There was an asthma improvement within a week, and a larger improvement within a month-I wasn't having to use the emergency inhaler much.

A few years later (now), after learning what scents/triggers he's sensitive to, etc...he's off the daily inhalers except when the pollen flies a few times a year.

My point is, asthmatic cats react differently to different litters...in my case, clay/wheat/newspaper litters are bad and pine is good. Is it the dust factor? Maybe...but even the "low dust" litters make mine react. For a vet to say not to use something without seeing how that particular cat reacts may mean misery for the cat !

That said, it's not like the cats are living in their litter boxes (I hope not) so the exposure to anything is very limited. Possibly the autopsied cats were breeders kept in an enclosed area with the pine stuff. Mine has a high side box (actually a rubbermaid tote with a side hole) but it's not covered so everything can dissapate....

When I had guinea pigs,I kept them on pine shavings, never had any respiratory issues... Is this something new that's come up the past few years? Cedar is horrible for them , but pine was what we (myself and fellow show people) always used....aspen was through the roof price wise. Got out of it a few years back though, so maybe the way they make the shavings has changed?

 

[DeeAnna]

Brewer George ... consider yourself warmly hugged and kissed on the cheek!!!!

Thank you for sharing this idea. If my five feline friends stay agreeable about the switch in litter, the pine pellet litter is going to save my back, make my house smell better, save a little money, and make my cats and me happier. The odor reduction is impressive compared to clumping clay litter. I really appreciate how light the used litter is, since I have to schlep the stuff down several flights of stairs. I also like that I can compost the used litter for use in the garden. (I flush all the poo, so the used litter is just pee and pine).

My two elder fellows Murray and Albert -- the 17-18 year olds who live exclusively upstairs -- have transitioned to the pellets without an ounce of complaint, and their upstairs litter box is now 100% pellets. Cleo, my opinionated gray girl cat, apparently doesn't like the pellets underfoot. She is quite willing to pee outside the litter box if she doesn't like what's in it, so I'm keeping two downstairs litter boxes to keep peace with her -- one with clay and one with pine. But even she has gotten to the point where she will use the pine litter if she's upstairs and the old guys' box is the closest available. That gives me hope that she will eventually agree to transition to 100% pine.

I'm most grateful for your kindness in passing this idea along!

Oh, and now I totally understand your comment "...I kind of look forward to emptying [the litter box] every day - it's just so cool!..."

Yeah. I get it. :mrgreen:

 

[thedarkreprise]

I'm a little late to this party, but that is quite an interesting find and one that I might look to trying in the future. We use walnut shells for cat litter. It cuts down on the smell an incredible amount, it attracts the cat to the box to begin with so there isn't any "roaming" at the mouth of the cover and it works like a dream to contain all moisture therein. The issue is that it can be pricy, however that's combatted by the fact that you don't have to completely change out the litter as often as you do with clay-based litters. Thank you for sharing your find though! I will certainly give that a try in the future.

 

[DeeAnna]

I've been using BG's method for a couple of months now. Still happy.

It works especially well with the sifting litter boxes made for pelleted litter like the Tidy Cat Breeze or this one http://allpinelitterbox.com/order.php

My elder guys tend to pee outside the box if the box is too small, so I switched one of their litter boxes to a standard litter pan that is extra big. That kind of pan uses more pellets, since the liquid can't drain away like it can with the sifting litter box. But small matter -- it's still much better than clay litter. Much less dusty, less odor, faster and easier to clean, less weight to carry around, uses less bedding so cheaper to use, easier disposal of the wastes ... what's not to like?

 

[Navaria]

I tried this last summer. One cat reluctantly agreed to the change. One had no problem at all. The other flat out refused. I even tried 10% pellet and 90% litter. Still no go. It lasted less than a week and we had to switch back. I was so sad we couldn't make it work because it sounded like the perfect solution.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Still going strong after two months. I'm beginning to think about buying the second bag of bedding, but I've still got a couple weeks left in that first 40# bag I bought.

 

[DeeAnna]

I've gone through a couple of bags in 2 months, but I have a couple of diabetic cats and they pee a LOT compared to a non-diabetic. Still a huge money saver.