Castile Soap Q

[Chach]

Hello. My vert first CP soap was an all-olive oil soap. I had NO idea what to expect either in process or in outcome. It was touted as a beginners recipe. In retrospect, and with the benefit of about 8 batches of varieous kinds of CP soap under my belt, I realize now that in this first, all-olive oil soap, the:
1. Time to trace was LOOOOOONG, compared to other batches I have made. Seemed like I was mixing forever.
2. The color is a factor (VERY yellow/greenish)
3. The final soap (after 8 weeks of curing) is a slimy, low-lather soap that, frankly, I am tempted to throw away.
Question: Is this (#3) usual for olive oil soaps? Any chance it will improve in any way with further curing?

Thanks so much. So glad I found you guys

 

[Obsidian]

Castile require a very long cure, think a year or more. Even then, it will be a slimy, nasty low lather soap.
Some people love castile for its gentleness, other like me find it irritating and dislike it very much.

 

[AliOop]

There is a long thread on this forum called Zany's No-Slime Castile. I haven't tried it yet, but some people do say it cuts way down on the slime factor, and even cuts down on the cure time. Like @Obsidian I have never found a Castile that I like yet, but I keep thinking that I will make a small batch using @Zany_in_CO 's technique, just to see if it is any better than what I've experienced in the past. I'm sure she will chime in here to provide further tips.

 

[shunt2011]

I dislike all high olive oil soaps. Even Zany’s wasn’t pleasing. I quit making high OO soap. I’ve changed to other recipes that are gentle and 1000 times better. I never use more than 30% OO and that’s rare theses days. I’ve switched to other oils.

 

[Obsidian]

While zany's is better as far as not being so slimy, it still doesn't lather well and is drying. I don't like OO over 25%

 

[cmzaha]

I am also in the camp with Obisidian I Hate Castile including the "No Slime" recipe that is around here. I am not trying to offend anyone it just my opinion. It still had slime and became very dossy. I also find I do not do well with any High Oleic soap. I use high oleic Sunflower and Canola but in the 15-20% range. For my skin, High Oleic soaps are drying.

 

[AliOop]

I dislike all high olive oil soaps. Even Zany’s wasn’t pleasing. I quit making high OO soap. I’ve changed to other recipes that are gentle and 1000 times better. I never use more than 30% OO and that’s rare theses days. I’ve switched to other oils.

@shunt2011 your post just made me realize something: of all the different batches I've made, the ones with high OO are the ones I don't like. Not enough lather, not the kind of lather I like... or the soap overall is just MEH compared to my lard-based soaps, coconut-oil salt soaps, or even tallow-based soaps.

Thank you for crystalizing something I had not pieced together for myself in almost 8 years of soapmaking.

 

[Chach]

I have always heard you need to have 30% olive oil in basic soap recipes. Is this not so? (Sorry....serious beginner here)

 

[AliOop]

I have always heard you need to have 30% olive oil in basic soap recipes. Is this not so? (Sorry....serious beginner here)

You don't have to use any OO at all if you don't want to do so.

My "basic" bar, and the one most requested from friends and family (I don't sell), is usually somewhere around 70% lard, 20% CO, 5% shea, 5% castor. If I don't have shea, I use more lard, or maybe a bit more castor oil, or both. I add powdered goat milk to the oils, and usually salt and sodium lactate to my liquid before adding the lye.

I also use vinegar instead of distilled water, but please read up on that before trying it - the lye amount must be adjusted.

This bar regularly gets rave reviews from those who use it. It has gentle, creamy lather that doesn't dry out the skin. And since lard is slow to trace, I can pour it easily into detailed molds, or use it for swirling.

Not everyone likes high lard soaps, but my crowd sure does. There are others who feel that way about high OO soaps. That's part of the fun - finding what works for you and yours. ☺

 

[Chach]

Thank you kindly, AliOop. I wonder if you have any suggestions for a close replacement for lard? Palm? Vegetable shortening? I have a family member who wont use lard soap, but your recipe sounds so reliable! Do you use lard because you dont like palm? Just curious. Learning....

 

[AliOop]

Thank you kindly, AliOop. I wonder if you have any suggestions for a close replacement for lard? Palm? Vegetable shortening? I have a family member who wont use lard soap, but your recipe sounds so reliable! Do you use lard because you dont like palm? Just curious. Learning....

I prefer soap with a lower cleansing number, so I try not to use high amounts of palm or CO. But I do use both of them, and if you like them in soap, go for it!

You can also use other soft oils (avocado, HO sunflower/safflower, rice bran) with something like soy wax or beeswax to add hardness.

 

[dibbles]

Palm oil isn't any more cleansing than lard (palm kernel oil is, though, and closer to coconut). You can use it as a sub for lard. As always, use a lye calculator. I find that palm oil will move a lot more quickly than lard, so if you use it at 70% to sub for lard in AliOop's recipe, keep your plan simple to see how it behaves. I've never made a 70% palm (or 70% anything with the exception of salt bars) so I can't really tell you what to expect.

 

[AliOop]

Palm oil isn't any more cleansing than lard (palm kernel oil is, though, and closer to coconut). You can use it as a sub for lard.

Yes, totally correct! I should have been clear that MY skin gets very dry from high PO soaps. It's a shame, because it has nice lather and good hardness.

 

[Sparks]

I agree with everyone up above. I would like to add though that many people love high olive oil soaps. It is especially useful if you have sensitive skin. Chemotherapy patients for instance. I like my high olive oil soap, but not at 100%. I always point new soapers to this Bastille recipe (70% OO, 25% CO, 5% Castor) as it's only 3 oils and you can use it earlier (although it's better if cured longer).

 

[DeeAnna]

I have always heard you need to have 30% olive oil in basic soap recipes. Is this not so? (Sorry....serious beginner here)

Most of my soap recipes contain around 40-50% oleic acid, but there's nothing that says the oleic acid has to come from olive oil. You can use olive oil if you want, but there are other fats rather high in high oleic acid that work as well.

I don't use olive -- just my preference -- but I often include HO sunflower or safflower. Heck, even lard is a reasonable source of oleic acid at 46%, if you go by the info in Soapmaking Friend and other soap recipe calcs.

On that note, a blend of about 20% coconut oil and 80% lard makes a nice soap, if you can give this soap a generous cure time. The oleic acid content in this blend is about 38%. My experience says this recipe doesn't lather especially well at 1-2 months -- okay, but nothing great -- but it performs real nice when it's around 1 year old, give or take a couple of months.

 

[linne1gi]

In April I made "Aleppo" soap. 80% Olive Oil (refined yellow) and 20% Laurel Berry Oil. I fully expected to have to cure this for 12 months. I just tried an end piece (curiosity over came me) and I have to say, I really love it. The lather is quite nice. (I did add one teaspoon sugar and 1 teaspoon salt). I am still going to cure it longer, but I'm pleasantly surprised.

 

[linne1gi]

 

[Zany_in_CO]

1. Time to trace was LOOOOOONG, compared to other batches I have made. Seemed like I was mixing forever.
That is typical. What temp did you use?
2. The color is a factor (VERY yellow/greenish)
My first batch of 100% OO (Pomace) was white. What brand and type of OO did you use? If EVOO off the shelf at the grocers, I'd suspect it was adulterated. Google "Fake Olive Oil" to learn more.
3. The final soap (after 8 weeks of curing) is a slimy, low-lather soap that, frankly, I am tempted to throw away.
That is typical. No need to toss it.
Question: Is this (#3) usual for olive oil soaps? Any chance it will improve in any way with further curing?
100% OO needs to cure 12 weeks/3 months.The longer the cure the better.

Please try making Zany's No Slime Castile and see what you think. There's a Love/Hate relationship among soapers with regard to Castile soap as you read above. I used to be a hater due to the same experience you mentioned above which propelled me to develop that recipe. I like to gift it (unscented) to cancer patients undergoing chemo/radiation. I infuse it with soothing calendula for a Gift Set for Baby Showers because it's the mildest soap for baby's sensitive skin.

When Trader Joes stopped selling their Tea Tree soap, a customer asked if I could duplicate it for her. I made ZNSC with comfrey-infused pomace OO and Tea Tree essential oil fragrance. Cured 6 weeks. She was pleased -- said she "liked it better than Trader Joes!" Haha

Most members who've tried it love it and add it to their stable of soaps to make on a regular basis. Not only does it reduce slime but it cures faster than traditional castile. I start washing my face with a small 1-oz. sample bar, AM and PM after 2 weeks. I have dry, sensitive, "mature" skin. My face likes it!

 

[shunt2011]

I agree with everyone up above. I would like to add though that many people love high olive oil soaps. It is especially useful if you have sensitive skin. Chemotherapy patients for instance. I like my high olive oil soap, but not at 100%. I always point new soapers to this Bastille recipe (70% OO, 25% CO, 5% Castor) as it's only 3 oils and you can use it earlier (although it's better if cured longer).

I find high OO extremely drying to my skin as do many of my family.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I find high OO extremely drying to my skin as do many of my family.

That happens. No doubt about it. But there's a large segment of the population that loves Castile soap. Even if you don't make it or use it for yourself, IMO and IME, it's good for all soapers, especially those who sell, to have a solid formula in your recipe file to make for others. That's why I spent 12 years of trial and error to develop ZNSC... NOT for me personally, but for those who prefer it. It's a good seller.