Can't get over how cool these soaps look and sound

[Aline]

Maybe I'm just confused (wouldn't be anything new), but in some places on this site they make a point of saying their soap is 100% natural and that they use no synthetic fragrance oils and in other places they mention using only 'skin-safe' fragrance oils.
I clicked on a few of the soaps to see the ingredients and they don't seem to be consistent in listing either EO or FO in the ingredient list, yet the descriptions talk about the wonderful fragrances.
Sounds like at least some FO's were used in this one:
http://www.naturalhandcraftedsoap.com/soap_view.cfm?soap_id=15&expandable=6
And this one just says "Pear berry scented" in the list of ingredients...a little ambiguous to state it nicely:
http://www.naturalhandcraftedsoap.com/soap_view.cfm?soap_id=44&expandable=4
Am I missing something?

When I see a company saying that they are using all essential oils when they are clearly using fragrance oils it makes me wonder what else they are lying about! So I won't buy from them because I don't trust them. There are a lot of vendors on Etsy who do this and I would like to tell them all off :wink: but I know the only solution is buyer education.....

 

[Bex1982]

Thats not really a loophole, either you list ALL the ingredient or none, they can't by law pick and choose what to include.

Actually they can because we don't have to list ANYTHING. I would feel scummy doing that but I've found a few that say 100% natural and have an "essential oil blend" that is CLEARLY a fragrance. But they are technically not violating the guidelines.

 

[seven]

since we are kinda on topic, i would like to ask something. first of all, i am not in the US.

e.g. pine tar soap

instead of saying the soap can do this and that, can i say that this soap contains pine tar, then after that i go on to say that pine tar is believed to help with this and that bla bla bla...

so, essentially i'm not talking about the soap itself, but more of the ingredients that are in the soap. does that makes sense? can US soap makers say the above things?

 

[navigator9]

Actually they can because we don't have to list ANYTHING. I would feel scummy doing that but I've found a few that say 100% natural and have an "essential oil blend" that is CLEARLY a fragrance. But they are technically not violating the guidelines.

When you start trying to "technically" not violate guidelines, you're on shaky ground. It's much easier to be compliant with them, then you have nothing to worry about. Great handmade soap speaks for itself. There's no need try and skirt the rules.

And true, as handmade soapmakers we are not required to list our ingredients, but if we do list any of the ingredients then we must list them all, and in descending order of predominance. If you're putting great stuff into your soaps, I don't see any reason not to list them. I'm always suspect when I don't see the ingredients listed, I wonder what there is to hide.

 

[scotsman]

What you refer to is what the FDA would call anecdotal evidence. In the US, true soap is not regulated by the FDA. If you make such claims, even anecdotally, your product falls under the classification of either a cosmetic or a drug, depending upon the nature of the claims. Your product then falls under FDA regulation and must comply with all requirements. Cosmetic products aren't too bad in most US states(except Florida) but drugs require a lot more testing and regulation than the average soap maker can afford. That is why I generally shy away from things like pine tar soap. Without being able to claim its benefits, it is not very marketable. This of course is for the US. I am not knowledgeable on the laws of other countries concerning this sort of thing.

 

[scotsman]

One thing some people do, and mind you this can be quite costly, is to have a private label company manufacture products to their specs. These companies have licensed and inspected facilities that will comply with governmental regulations. The only problem is that they are quite pricey and have fairly high production minimums. If you have a successful business that has high yearly revenues and would like to round out your product line without having to fuss with all the licensing, research & development, etc then this might be a viable route. If you are selling at craft fairs and on etsy then this would be way beyond the scope of what would be economically feasible.

 

[Bex1982]

How about those things saying "not intended to treat or cure" (might be different wording).

 

[Bex1982]

I wonder how berts bees and dr bronners etc are allowed to make claims? Not that its lawful (im not sure?) but at my local co-op there are handmade soaps with all sorts of claims. Does the fda give you a fine if they find your soap with a claim? They would have a lot of work to do lol. I used to make lotion and could make claims as long as I didn’t say it was intended to treat anything and I had to list all my ingredients. I didnt need a special license. So if you make claims and your soap technically becomes a cosmetic, you would just have to make sure you labeled all your soaps correctly right? Its not a drug as long as you don't say it treats or cures.

This is pretty helpful:

http://www.indiebusinessnetwork.com/fda-cosmetics-laws/

 

[scotsman]

You can make claims as long as they fall under the category of a cosmetic and not a drug but then you fall under FDA regulation and must comply with FDA as well as state and local requirements. Here in Florida, all cosmetic products must be made in a facility that is licensed and inspected by the state. They may not be manufactured in a private residence. Florida has some of the most stringent laws regarding the manufacture and sale of cosmetics. Too much headache for me. I'll stick to true soap that makes no claims other than that it'll wash the stink off ya, lol! The FDA usually starts with a cease and desist letter before they start issuing fines. I don't think you have to worry about them showing up at your local Farmer's market or co-op, but they have gotten home soap makers by way of etsy and other online venues. Be wary of a customer who wants to buy one of each of your products, lol! Better to do it by the book and avoid any unwanted legal hassles. Personally, I just enjoy sharing my product with people and making them happy. They can draw their own conclusions about any potential benefits. If course, I will do nothing to dissuade these conclusions. Not my place to do so

 

[Bex1982]

Luckily in WA they don't have tight laws on this stuff and pretty much everyone and their mother is selling something from their home: weed, bbq sauce, kombucha, herbal tonics LOL. but, I dont really make claims other than in person if a customer asks which of my soaps is best for dry skin or oily skin or sensitive skin. I wouldn’t want someone with dry skin to buy my salt bar to wash their face with you know what I mean? But I don't put claims on labels, just the name and ingredients.
I see a lot of shady stuff on etsy. I closed my shop there after only a few months. Can't compete with the "magic" bars of soap a lot of them are selling.

 

[DottieF.]

The ingredients for her Jasmine Lilac soap:

Ingredients:
Olive , organic coconut, palm kernel oils, vegetable oils, Organic Shea butter, French jasmine essential oil, lilac essential oil, crushed lilac and rose flowers

I wonder where she found french jasmine and lilac essential oils?? I wonder if she really understands the difference between fragrance oils and essential oil (or just doesn't care)?

 

[Bex1982]

never ever heard of french jasmine. French lavender yes but not jasmine. I doubt she got either of those since that would be so expensive for soap, you'd have to dump a ton in to even smell it in the end...