Can y'all look at this CP recipe I came up with?

[Kari Howie]

I got lazy and was using premixed oils from BB for awhile, but I got tired of the expense and long wait times. So here's a formula I came up with and ran through lye calc. I'd really appreciate input. I roughly followed percentage guidelines from Modern Soap Making in terms of Hard Oils, Hard Conditioning Oils, Soft Conditioning Oils, Luxury Oils, and Castor Oil. I'm sorry the amounts are hard to read. I tried to space them out, and saved the changes, but it reverted to the original format.
Thanks!

Kari

SoapCalc © Recipe Name: New Print Recipe
Total oil weight 3.5 lb
Water as percent of oil weight 32.00 %
Super Fat/Discount 7 %
Lye Concentration 30.582 %
Water : Lye Ratio 2.2699:1
Sat : Unsat Ratio 51 : 49
Iodine 57
INS 157
Fragrance Ratio 0.5
Fragrance Weight 1.75 oz
Pounds Ounces Grams
Water 1.120 17.92 508.02
Lye - NaOH 0.493 7.89 223.81
Oils 3.500 56.00 1,587.57
Fragrance 0.109 1.75 49.61
Soap weight before CP cure

5.223 83.56 2,369.02
# √ Oil/Fat % Pounds Ounces Grams
1 Babassu Oil 20.00 0.700 11.20 317.51
2 Cocoa Butter 20.00 0.700 11.20 317.51
3 Coconut Oil, 76 deg 15.00 0.525 8.40 238.14
4 Palm Oil 10.00 0.350 5.60 158.76
5 Olive Oil 10.00 0.350 5.60 158.76
6 Canola Oil 5.00 0.175 2.80 79.38
7 Almond Oil, sweet 5.00 0.175 2.80 79.38
8 Castor Oil 5.00 0.175 2.80 79.38
9 Hemp Oil 10.00 0.350 5.60 158.76
Totals 100.00 3.500 56.00 1,587.57
Soap Bar Quality Range Your Recipe
Hardness 29 - 54 49
Cleansing 12 - 22 24
Conditioning 44 - 69 47
Bubbly 14 - 46 29
Creamy 16 - 48 30
Iodine 41 - 70 57
INS 136 - 165 157
Lauric 17
Myristic 7
Palmitic 16
Stearic 9
Ricinoleic 5
Oleic 29
Linoleic 11
Linolenic 3

 

[Megan]

A few things that stick out to me right away:

It looks like a really expensive bar...and kind of a complicated recipe. Is there a reason you are using both babassu and coconut?

It is going to be really cleansing. I would not be able to use this soap. I know you have a 7% superfat there, but even 7 I think is a little low for the high cleansing number and low conditioning number.

I love modern soapmaking, and consult that blog ALL THE TIME, but I found that the particular article and recommendations you are citing did not work for me. I instead really liked her article about the most popular fatty acid profiles.

 

[Kari Howie]

A few things that stick out to me right away:

It looks like a really expensive bar...and kind of a complicated recipe. Is there a reason you are using both babassu and coconut?

It is going to be really cleansing. I would not be able to use this soap. I know you have a 7% superfat there, but even 7 I think is a little low for the high cleansing number and low conditioning number.

I love modern soapmaking, and consult that blog ALL THE TIME, but I found that the particular article and recommendations you are citing did not work for me. I instead really liked her article about the most popular fatty acid profiles.

Thanks, Megan. I figured it would be expensive and was aiming for a luxury bar. I did wonder about the cleansing part. I’ll let other folks chime in, then rework the ingredients and numbers. Thanks again!

 

[Dawni]

Hi Kari! Here's the little that I know..

Babassu + Coconut combined total will make a drying soap for me and mine even at 7% SF. I'd use one or the other or lessen amounts for both. They're very similar. I don't go over 15 cleansing usually.

I have not tried that high cocoa butter with palm but you'd probably have to soap slightly warmer to avoid stearic spots. I could be wrong about this though lol as I've never used palm.

Most recommend the nice oils at minimum 10% so you can actually feel them and I consider sweet almond one of those so if it were me I'd up it to 10-15 or even 20 (and scrap off olive since I'm using this). Or maybe scrap out the canola, or up that to 10% also since I'd be lowering Babassu + Coconut. Canola isn't a luxury oil though..

I've not used hemp but I read it's very prone to DOS and a bit of a waste to use an expensive oil in soap (if costs are a factor). Coupled with canola, chances for DOS will increase. I'd scrap this (costs matter to me) or the canola if I want to keep this (lessen the chance for DOS) since it's a luxury bar.

I'm sure our more experienced soapers will chime in n give you better info.

 

[cmzaha]

While the above recipe will make a nice soap it is high cost and not necessary. You can make a very luxurious bar without all the expensive oils. You can make a lovely bar of soap using Palm, Coconut Oil, PKO splitting the two or just using CO or PKO as your bubbly oil. Babassu is really nice in lotions and I simply do not waste it in soap. For a vegan soap, I like Palm at 39-45% or add in some Cocoa Butter and deduct from the Palm, Shea at 10% then whatever other oils you want. It is suggested you use Canola HO, not regular Canola. While Almond Oil is nice I do not find it makes a nicer bar than other liquid oils although Almond Oil can add to lather, for me, it is too expensive to use in soap it goes in my lotion. Another nice combination is Palm/lard, and Tallow/Lard combinations. Lard will help slow down the fast tracing of Palm. Only of course, if you are not opposed to lard.

You simply do not need 4 liquid oils to make a very nice soap. I love Canola HO, it is cheap and replaces OO since it is high oleic. Personally I dislike OO in soap and only use it for my once a year Castille Soap. I love Sunflower HO, Safflower HO, Canola HO and Avocado Oil but Avocado is getting too expensive to use in all soaps. It also goes into my lotions.

 

[amd]

1 Babassu Oil 20.00 0.700 11.20 317.51
2 Cocoa Butter 20.00 0.700 11.20 317.51
3 Coconut Oil, 76 deg 15.00 0.525 8.40 238.14
4 Palm Oil 10.00 0.350 5.60 158.76
5 Olive Oil 10.00 0.350 5.60 158.76
6 Canola Oil 5.00 0.175 2.80 79.38
7 Almond Oil, sweet 5.00 0.175 2.80 79.38
8 Castor Oil 5.00 0.175 2.80 79.38
9 Hemp Oil 10.00 0.350 5.60 158.76

The coconut and babassu oil would be drying (they are very similar in profile).
I would drop the cocoa butter to 5-10%, not much is needed and I found that even at 10% it caused some problems with a brittle soap (but that may have also been a combination with the other oils in my recipe).
I would plug the holes left by removing the babassu and reducing the cocoa butter into the Palm.
I'd drop the Canola and Almond at 5% and up the OO to 20% - or add avocado oil. Canola oil to me just doesn't say "luxury bar".
To me this looks pretty good:

But... if you buy a readymix from BB - don't they have the actual recipe posted somewhere? Why not just see if you can find that and make it yourself? That's what I would do.

 

[cmzaha]

@amd I sell a lot of soaps with canola and no one ever questions it. Let's face it, you can use a lot of exotic oils and still make a lousy soap.

 

[amd]

@amd I sell a lot of soaps with canola and no one ever questions it. Let's face it, you can use a lot of exotic oils and still make a lousy soap.

Indeed - and I didn't say that canola oil makes bad soap, it just doesn't say luxury to me. My word association with it may be different than someone else's.

 

[Kari Howie]

The coconut and babassu oil would be drying (they are very similar in profile).
I would drop the cocoa butter to 5-10%, not much is needed and I found that even at 10% it caused some problems with a brittle soap (but that may have also been a combination with the other oils in my recipe).
I would plug the holes left by removing the babassu and reducing the cocoa butter into the Palm.
I'd drop the Canola and Almond at 5% and up the OO to 20% - or add avocado oil. Canola oil to me just doesn't say "luxury bar".
To me this looks pretty good:
View attachment 41462

But... if you buy a readymix from BB - don't they have the actual recipe posted somewhere? Why not just see if you can find that and make it yourself? That's what I would do.

I have the BB ready mix percentages, but I wanted to make my own recipe instead of just copying BB’s. I may end up copying it anyway.

While the above recipe will make a nice soap it is high cost and not necessary. You can make a very luxurious bar without all the expensive oils. You can make a lovely bar of soap using Palm, Coconut Oil, PKO splitting the two or just using CO or PKO as your bubbly oil. Babassu is really nice in lotions and I simply do not waste it in soap. For a vegan soap, I like Palm at 39-45% or add in some Cocoa Butter and deduct from the Palm, Shea at 10% then whatever other oils you want. It is suggested you use Canola HO, not regular Canola. While Almond Oil is nice I do not find it makes a nicer bar than other liquid oils although Almond Oil can add to lather, for me, it is too expensive to use in soap it goes in my lotion. Another nice combination is Palm/lard, and Tallow/Lard combinations. Lard will help slow down the fast tracing of Palm. Only of course, if you are not opposed to lard.

You simply do not need 4 liquid oils to make a very nice soap. I love Canola HO, it is cheap and replaces OO since it is high oleic. Personally I dislike OO in soap and only use it for my once a year Castille Soap. I love Sunflower HO, Safflower HO, Canola HO and Avocado Oil but Avocado is getting too expensive to use in all soaps. It also goes into my lotions.

I’m not opposed to lard at all. But I feared (probably unfounded) it would increase risk of DOS. No scientific reason for thinking that. Just something I thought I read somewhere.

 

[cmzaha]

Indeed - and I didn't say that canola oil makes bad soap, it just doesn't say luxury to me. My word association with it may be different than someone else's.

I knew what you were saying! And it is true it does not scream luxury, it just makes good soap. So for a luxury oil I at times add in some AVO, Sunflower, Argan, cringe, etc for label appeal.

@Kari, you probably read the DOS issue and lard from some testing I did. I have issues with lard so do not go over 25% with lard and usually use it at the rate of 22%

 

[Kari Howie]

The coconut and babassu oil would be drying (they are very similar in profile).
I would drop the cocoa butter to 5-10%, not much is needed and I found that even at 10% it caused some problems with a brittle soap (but that may have also been a combination with the other oils in my recipe).
I would plug the holes left by removing the babassu and reducing the cocoa butter into the Palm.
I'd drop the Canola and Almond at 5% and up the OO to 20% - or add avocado oil. Canola oil to me just doesn't say "luxury bar".
To me this looks pretty good:
View attachment 41462

But... if you buy a readymix from BB - don't they have the actual recipe posted somewhere? Why not just see if you can find that and make it yourself? That's what I would do.

I couldn’t upload your attachment.

 

[Nanette]

I use olive oil a lot, I happen to really love it as does my skin, so everyone is different.

 

[Susie]

I use olive oil a lot, I happen to really love it as does my skin, so everyone is different.

I am the opposite, I can't stand high OO soaps. Love what it does for soaps at 15%, but not above that. Love the lard, though!

 

[Nanette]

Thats interesting...I only tried lard once and didnt like it at all....so everybodys skin really is different. I use oo at 40% quite often...I know its not the hardest bar but to me its lovely. But thats just me ...I have old vata skin. In defense of lard (if it needs defending) I dont have access to good lard, or tallow.

 

[Kari Howie]

Y’all are sharing such great information and wisdom. I love reading each new response.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Y’all are sharing such great information and wisdom. I love reading each new response.

Thanks for posting your formula and asking for help, Kari. I love reading the responses as well. Interesting!

I don't have anything to add except, KISS - "Keep it Simple, Sweetie!" You don't want to be buying 9 oils every time you make soap when you can accomplish the same (or better) effect with 3, 4 or 5 oils.

 

[Kari Howie]

Thanks for posting your formula and asking for help, Kari. I love reading the responses as well. Interesting!

I don't have anything to add except, KISS - "Keep it Simple, Sweetie!" You don't want to be buying 9 oils every time you make soap when you can accomplish the same (or better) effect with 3, 4 or 5 oils.

Oh thank you! I feel like I have permission to not be so complex.

 

[Susie]

All soapers go through the stage that you think you need a bunch of luxury oils (or 9 different oils) to make a good batch. You don't. You just need a good 3-5 oil soap. But you will learn that through trial and effort and testing with people who don't know what is in each batch. I also learned to not code my soap with a 1 or A because people always go for those regardless of what the batch is like. I use random letters from the middle of the alphabet to code which soap is which recipe.