Can my soap be saved?

Discussion in 'Recipe Feedback' started by jorjaapeech, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Dec 7, 2017 #1

    jorjaapeech

    jorjaapeech

    jorjaapeech

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    Hi all! I am new to CP as I learned HP method first (still a newbie there too). I have been watching tons of how-to’s for CP, then I discovered CPOP, pouring techniques, etc. Wellllllll, I watched a video that explained SF and I don’t think I grasped it very well. I have 4 batches of soap curing and only 3 were Superfatted. I ran the recipes through soapcalc with 0% SF because I thought that if I used Shea and olive oil pomace in the original recipe, then I would not need to add more oil to SF with after trace. Other oils used were Coconut, palm oil and castor. I think I need to redo them and add more oil or am I just panicking? The bars are rock hard and I used a small piece but it felt drying. I also didn’t know how to mix TD the right way but I found out AFTER I saw powder puff marks on some bars. My question is since I made them between Nov 26th and Dec 2, is it ok to leave them the way they are? Or will they be ok to give away in a couple of weeks after I remelt, add the oils and reheat in the oven? or should I just work on a fresh HP batch? This is how they look. Thanks and all help will be greatly appreciated! IMG_0258.jpg
     
  2. Dec 7, 2017 #2

    Cellador

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    Have you zap tested them to see if they are lye heavy? If there's no zap, I'd continue to let them cure & see if the dryness lessens over time.
     
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  3. Dec 7, 2017 #3

    jorjaapeech

    jorjaapeech

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    No I haven’t. Is that where I touch one of the scraps to my tongue?
     
  4. Dec 7, 2017 #4

    Millie

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    Zap test: https://classicbells.com/soap/zapTest.html

    I think soapcalc assumes pure lye, but our lye is not 100% active and diminishes in quality when exposed to air, so there is probably a small superfat. It is nice to calculate a little extra superfat into the recipe though for variations in sap value of the oils, and for skin feel. What is your recipe? If there are lots of unsaponifiables and low coconut they will probably feel fine. I hope DeeAnna and CMZ chime in because I think they have played with superfat that low.
     
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  5. Dec 7, 2017 #5

    jorjaapeech

    jorjaapeech

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    Thanks Millie for your help as well. These are my recipes... IMG_1512615128.636617.jpg IMG_1512615167.614388.jpg IMG_1512615207.979175.jpg
     
  6. Dec 7, 2017 #6

    Susie

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    Don't forget that that soap needs 4-6 weeks to cure, just like HP.
     
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  7. Dec 7, 2017 #7

    Millie

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    I'm still not totally sure about the skin feel, but my guess is they will be fine for most people's skin with time. If they feel a little harsh at 4-6 weeks, try setting them aside a while longer (just forget about them for a bit - all soaps get better a few months in!)

    A good starting point is 5% superfat and 33% lye concentration (not water as % of oils). After that, your recipe looks nice!
     
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  8. Dec 7, 2017 #8

    jorjaapeech

    jorjaapeech

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    Ohhhhh, you don’t reduce the water percentage to 33 but you increase the lye to 33 and keep the water as 38% in soapcalc standard? Gheez, I need a classroom setting to immerse myself in all things soap because I have notes, recipes, reminders etc. everywhere! Thank you soooooo much for checking my recipe too...still working on that one base to keep it simple and fluid in CP until I get the hang of it (and for keeping labeling simple). With gratitude , Dana

    Thanks also Susie! You said it
     
  9. Dec 7, 2017 #9

    cmzaha

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    For me and my customers 20% CO is a bit high but some, IrishLass comes to mind, love 20% or a bit higher. I do low superfat in the 1-3% range depending on which recipe I am using. The lower the CO the lower the superfat I use. One reason I gave up superfatting higher is that we have very poor plumbing and lowering the superfat helps us a lot in plumbing bills. I simply cannot run a lot of free oils down my drains. Old house on a hillside on stilts below street level is horrific for plumbing. :evil:

    As for the 33% lye concentration just use Lye Concentration option in soapcalc or any soap calculator and enter in 33%, leaving the other options blank. In soap calc it is the #3 box and the second option. Give your soap 2-3 month cure time and you should notice a considerable difference in the feel
     
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  10. Dec 7, 2017 #10

    jorjaapeech

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    Ok will do... I picked up somewhere that below 25% CO was fine but I see that’s my biggest (dry bar) hurdle. I was afraid there would be no to little lather and the bar would be softer. Seems I will need to do more experimenting with smaller batch sizes until I get it right. Thank you kindly for the explanation!
     
  11. Dec 7, 2017 #11

    toxikon

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    Is that rack stainless steel? If not, it may cause your soaps to develop DOS.
     
  12. Dec 7, 2017 #12

    DeeAnna

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    You can fiddle with the "water as % of oils" setting, but I don't recommend that -- instead fiddle with lye concentration or water:lye ratio. Either of these settings will give you more consistent results than continuing to use the water as % of lye setting. I won't get into the reasons why in this thread -- you can read my soapy article on this topic (click the link at the end of this message) if you want to know more.

    By using soapcalc and setting your superfat to zero, your soap is very likely perfectly fine. The NaOH purity is never 100% (which is what soapcalc assumes) so the difference between 100% and your actual NaOH purity is what I call the "hidden" superfat that soapcalc builds into every recipe. Combining a zero % official superfat plus this hidden superfat, that means the actual superfat is probably somewhere between 3% to 5% give or take. That's plenty fine for bath soap.

    I would not want to cure soap on a metal rack. It might work fine, but there's a real risk that the metal may accelerate the chemical reactions that cause rancidity (DOS, dreaded orange spots). The safest bet is to keep soap on plastic or lint free cloth or something like that.
     
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  13. Dec 7, 2017 #13

    jorjaapeech

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    I’m not sure...hmmm...it maybe chrome but I didn’t think of that and only discovered the little slot was perfectly sized for each bar but to be on the safe side I will remover them ASAP and won’t use the stands until after cure. Thanks a bunch!

    Wow, Thanks for explaining that and I put them there a few days ago I believe but I will return them to the plastic trays I was using already bc you’re the 2nd person to advise me of that so I appreciate it.
     
  14. Dec 7, 2017 #14

    penelopejane

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    Chrome is a metal.
    It is not just until soap is cured that you should not let it touch metal. Soap should never touch metal. I agree that your recipe will be fine for most people’s skin after 8 weeks cure.

    My other concern with your soap is the second layer. Is that melt and pour? What did you do differently with that layer that you didn’t do to the other layers?
     
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  15. Dec 7, 2017 #15

    jorjaapeech

    jorjaapeech

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    Got it, I will remove them from the stand immediately when I get home from work. The 2nd layer was CPOP not melt and pour and I used some natural colorants, bentonite clay, annatto powder and rosemary powder. That one I did suferfat superfat. Thanks a bunch!
     
  16. Dec 7, 2017 #16

    penelopejane

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    So are you saying you added extra oil over and above the recipe in that layer?

    If that’s so you will find as it cures it will shrink or twist at that layer and it will dissolve at different rates as you use it.

    You are best to stick to a recipe exactly. Even to the point of reserving some liquid from the recipe to mix colourings.
    If you need 2 tsp of water to mix the bentonite etc then add the exactly proportionate amount of water back into the other two layers too.

    Making soap involves a lot of maths but it’s pretty easy maths. :)
     
  17. Dec 7, 2017 #17

    jorjaapeech

    jorjaapeech

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    Gheez yes I did! lol, and I am getting educated more and more as I go lol. I will def do the reserve for colorants (now I have to research which ones work well to mix in the oil or water). Oh, quick question... if I bought bath bomb lake colors red, blue, yellow and orange from WSP, can I use them for soaps also? I hate to not use them as I am focusing on soap now. Thanks a bunch!
     
  18. Dec 8, 2017 #18

    penelopejane

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    I only use natural colourants so I’ll leave someone else to answer that one!

    Even if your TD etc says mix with oil on the box check and see if it mixes better with water. Mine does!
    Clay needs a lot of water and time to mix and wet up (especially bentonite) and will make a difference to a soap unless you account for it.

    It’s s lot to learn and when you watch some of the videos you’ll think: why do I have to be so particular when everyone else is so slap dash? Don’t worry - you’ll end up making a better more consistent soap.
     
  19. Dec 9, 2017 #19

    mx6inpenn

    mx6inpenn

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    I would look at the colorants on the website and see if they say. My guess would be that they are safe to use, since skin safe is skin safe. I would worry about morphing more than anything. The site should say if they can be used in cp. It would need to say cold process or ph stable.
     
  20. Dec 10, 2017 #20

    jorjaapeech

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    Ok yes you are right with the TD but I’m not having luck with it making a big difference in my recipes. I deducted from the total water content and colored it and added it back (about 1.5 oz to 2 lb HP batch) but it just turned a lighter beige lol so I may just try it another time with CP once I get the nerve. Thanks for your help and encouragement!
     

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