Brittle edges and trace factor

[Lyma]

I'm heaving a brain teaser this period concerning some of my batches that are slightly brittle(mostly on the bottom surface) only while i cut them.
I present you some details of some batches to help you get a point of view.

All my batches are Extra Virgin Olive oil 90%, Coconut Oil 10%, 5% superfat

A.Pomegranate juice 50% of water, lye concentration 30%, 40 [FONT=&quot]˚C oils/lye
B. [/FONT]Pomegranate juice 30% of water, lye concentration 33%, 30 [FONT=&quot]˚C oils/lye[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]C. [/FONT]Pomegranate juice 30% of water, lye concentration 28%, 30 [FONT=&quot]˚C oils/lye[/FONT]
D.Olive oil 100% lye concentration 28%, 45 [FONT=&quot]˚C oils/lye[/FONT]

Results
A. Very good trace (only when fragrance added), quite brittle (bottom)
B. Very good trace (only when fragrance added), no brittle
C. None trace (no fragrance added) , quite brittle (bottom)
D. None trace (no fragrance added) , quite brittle (bottom)

Conclusions
I'm trying to find the main reason/s to avoid brittle. It's not a major problem because i cut the outer problematic surface and have a nice soap, but the right thing is to find the solution and avoid such things in future.

• Is it the non trace factor (inadequate saponification)? If so, why recipe B had no brittle?
• Is it the temperature factor? (Relevance between initilal soapmaking temperature and heat loss during stirring or during curing in the mold)

Anyone has a solution to my problem?

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[Lyma]

Here are two pics of recipe D with the 100% olive. The brittle is not so heavy in the other batches, but on the same style as this one.

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

What kind of mold are you using, and are you lining it?
Is the soap almost chalky or flaky where its brittle, or is it just pulling away from the rest of the soap when you unmold it?
When you say "no trace", do you mean you just stirred to emulsion and then poured?
Is it lye heavy?

 

[Lyma]

What kind of mold are you using, and are you lining it?
Is the soap almost chalky or flaky where its brittle, or is it just pulling away from the rest of the soap when you unmold it?
When you say "no trace", do you mean you just stirred to emulsion and then poured?
Is it lye heavy?

In A, B, C i used a wooden loaf mold and in D (picture) a big plastic cube. I don't understand chalky o r flaky... When i try to cut it with blade or wire, some parts of the bottom surface of the soap separates. These separated parts if you'll play them with your fingers, they will break through. The remaining good part of soap is not brittle, like hard cheese.
The batches that not traced, i was stirring for about 2 hours, and couldn't stand for more, i poured them. It's really difficult to trace with 100% fresh olive. Only if i add fragrance, it traces in a sudden.
No, they are not lye heavy.

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

I'm thinking your soap may not have been emulsified enough. I have had soap with brittle edges or even layers from false trace. With those batches, the oil and lye didn't separate out, but some parts of the soap had more lye, and some had less. I think you may have the same problem here.
I'm also wondering if the acidity of the Pomegranate juice is causing a problem. Have you soaped this recipe with water only?
Do you have a stick/immersion blender? Stirring Olive Oil soap by hand will take forever! But if you use a stick blender, it can happen pretty quickly...as in minutes. Especially if you use a water discount/stronger lye solution.

So here's my suggestion - chop up these soaps very small and rebatch them in a crock pot or double boiler.
Or, on your next batch, use a stick/immersion blender, use only (and less) water to make you lye solution (stronger concentration), and soap at a higher temperature - around 50* C.

Hope that helps and that I haven't been too confusing!

 

[Lyma]

I'm thinking your soap may not have been emulsified enough. I have had soap with brittle edges or even layers from false trace. With those batches, the oil and lye didn't separate out, but some parts of the soap had more lye, and some had less. I think you may have the same problem here.
I'm also wondering if the acidity of the Pomegranate juice is causing a problem. Have you soaped this recipe with water only?
Do you have a stick/immersion blender? Stirring Olive Oil soap by hand will take forever! But if you use a stick blender, it can happen pretty quickly...as in minutes. Especially if you use a water discount/stronger lye solution.

So here's my suggestion - chop up these soaps very small and rebatch them in a crock pot or double boiler.
Or, on your next batch, use a stick/immersion blender, use only (and less) water to make you lye solution (stronger concentration), and soap at a higher temperature - around 50* C.

Hope that helps and that I haven't been too confusing!

Emulsified, you mean has not enough saponified, right?
The part of the soap that separates due to lye heavy or the opposite? And why separates only the bottom surface?

I thought about the pomegranate juice, but the recipe in the picture (100% olive - 100% water) has the same problem, and more intense than the other ones.
Yes i use a stick blender and i make water discount.

About the temperatures, i don't want to use such high ones. I've read in many sources that vegetable recipes react better to low temperatures, especially if you use additives, like honey, aloe vera etc.

I'm quite confused
If batch A had no brittle like batch B ,things would be easy, because the trace factor was the solution. When traced - no brittle,
when not traced - brittle.