Brine fail, help trouble shoot?

[Obsidian]

Tried a brine soap today but used marine salt (instant ocean) instead of regular salt. I know @Susie has used it before so I don't know what went wrong. Here is the recipe http://www.evernote.com/l/ANh5eU4iW2pCV6UInq2hpYJNykNH4Qkf0XI/

Mixed my oils and melted them together. Measured hot water, added salt, once dissolved popped it in the fridge to cool. Once cool, strained and added my lye.

At this point the oils had cooled to a thick pudding consistency so I went ahead and added the hot lye to use the heat from that to remelt everything. Oils started to melt then went a weird curdled before hitting thick trace. It wasn't a normal trace though, it was a odd rubbery like mix, very similar to the lye heavy castile so many of us made years back. It all came together nicely, looked like regular ol soap.

Poured into a loaf mold and two single bars. After a couple hours, I check and it had a pool of water on top. Figured it was gelling and overheating, tried to stir it in mold, was solid. Check singles, they were also weeping. Was a weird grainy mess where I had stirred, put the whole mess into a crock, waiting to see what happened.

So my question is, was this false trace or a issue from the type of salt used? Did I use too much of it? I tried to lather up some of the mess on my gloves and it emulsified some but no lather. Hope I didn't create a caustic mush.

well, it wasn't false trace. I have a unusable mess. Gonna toss it in a mold and hope it neutralizes after sitting awhile so I can throw it out.

 

[cmzaha]

Are you sure your fragrance is not the culprit? From your above post I assume you already tried to rebatch it. Wish I could help but your recipe is fine for a Soleseif soap which I make often. Well, not as often since taking care of the parents :-(, but I have never run into such a problem. Your method should have been fine also. Have you used this particular fo before? That would be my only guess as to the troublemaker. I even make salt bars with salt brine at times with no problems and your recipe is very similiar to mine. Sorry I was really no help Obsidian, I get so frustrated when things go awry. I also cannot see any reason why the Instant Ocean would cause a problem. We can purchase liquid sea salt from Catalina Island where I live and have tried it in the past with no problems.

 

[Obsidian]

Used the FO before, it soaps beautifly. I can only guess the mineral content is similar to dead sea salt, too much of something for soap to form. I'd like to keep experimenting with the instant ocean, see if I can find a amount that would work but its such a waste of ingredients. I should have stuck to regular sea salt

I cooked it on low for a couple hours, it did nothing but get hot. Didn't melt, didn't gel, nothing. By the time I turned off the crock, there was over 1/2" water in the bottom. Accidently got some of the mess on my fingers, it was very greasy when I tried to wash it off.

I stuffed it in a plastic coffee can, will leave it sit for a few days before throwing it out.

 

[cmzaha]

That is a real bummer and I did suspect you had not used a new fo. What I do is make a gallon of pre-batch brine so I have it on hand. Last time I had a large himalayan candle holder that I was tired of so I dissolved it It got repurposed

 

[Obsidian]

That's a good idea. I have a huge Himalayan lamp I never use, need to take a hammer to it.

 

[cmzaha]

 

[fuzz-juzz]

I think salt is the culprit.
Something similar happened to my brine soap. Regular recipe, FO I've used before, but...
Soap turned into oozy, lye heavy mess. It did come together in the slow cooker though.
To be honest, it was one of the best soaps I've ever made, it felt so good on skin and lather was nice, but I'm not in a rush to try brine soaps again.

 

[Susie]

I use the reef salt (and it is naturally dried ocean water salt, not dead sea) mixed according to the directions so as to make water for the aquarium. The brands we normally get use 1/2 cup to 1 gallon of water. I normally make up a batch to change water on the aquarium, then pour off the excess into a plastic milk jug that has been cleaned out using only my 100% CO liquid soap and water, which is also what we use to wash our hands and arms before reaching into the tank. This sits in a closet until I am ready to either change the water again or make soap, so say less than a week, but more than a day. I have never had a problem using it before, and I have been doing this since late 2015. My hubby LOVES his soap made with this, and he uses a bar every 2 weeks, so I make it quite often.

 

[Obsidian]

Thanks susie, I used a whole more than that. I'll try again and follow the directions.

 

[Obsidian]

Ok, round 2 is in the mold. Recipe is different this time, 50% coconut, 45% lard, 5% neem. Mixed the reef salt at 1/8 cup to 1 quart water. Used the same FO as last time

let brine and oils cool to room temp, mixed together. Took a lot longer to trace then I expected. The reef salt didn't accelerate at all and no other weirdness.
I used individual molds this time, poured half the batter at light trace. Added 1/8 cup regular sea salt to remaining batter, was quite thick by the time I got the last bar poured.

Decided to use sea salt in some because I wanted more normal type salt bars with this FO and I used up the last of it with this batch.

 

[Iluminameluna]

@Obsidian: How did your soap turn out?

I use real seawater, filtered, to make soap but I'm running out. I was thinking of making my own salt water, with real naturally dried sea salt produced locally, and it was REALLY helpful to read the proportions of salt/water, above. I was just wondering how it works compared to the actual seawater.

Thanks for posting your experiences!!

 

[Obsidian]

It turned out fine. I've not tested it in awhile but it set up well and unmolded easy.

I won't use marine salt again though. Its barely salty, next time I'll use regular sea salt so I can make a stronger brine.

 

[NsMar42111]

The salt I use in my puffer's tank absorbs water from the air just sitting, to the point where it becomes a runny mess after a week (I left the lid off a jar by accident). It wasn't instant ocean, it was a different brand but I bought it so long ago I don't remember what it is. It's definitely not "regular" salt, I tasted it once and blech (curiosity)....

 

[Susie]

@Obsidian: How did your soap turn out?

I use real seawater, filtered, to make soap but I'm running out. I was thinking of making my own salt water, with real naturally dried sea salt produced locally, and it was REALLY helpful to read the proportions of salt/water, above. I was just wondering how it works compared to the actual seawater.

Thanks for posting your experiences!!

I originally used seawater to make soap, I brought a few 5 gallon buckets full from the Gulf of Mexico. I started using the Instant Ocean (although we use whatever brand is on sale as long as we trust the company) when we decided to use a couple of those buckets for the aquarium to jump start it cycling naturally (http://www.firsttankguide.net/cycle.php) with actual sand and water straight from the source. (Be sure to pour this through a filter while at the ocean so you can toss any baby crabs or fish back in!) So, I did a head to head test of the store bought salts with actual seawater. It acted exactly the same without the "grit" that actual seawater can give you if you accidentally stir the bottom of the bucket.

 

[Iluminameluna]

The seawater I've been using has been filtered through a ceramic filter originally intended for making any fresh water potable. So, no grit, baby fish or crabs!
It worked just fine for another soap I made that didn't include fruit puree, so now I'm wondering if that addition is why my mango soap recipe has failed to harden.
Urgh!

 

[Susie]

Could be. You probably know this, but in case you don't, fruit puree is subbed for water in equal proportions. So, in case you didn't do that, you got too much liquid. If you did do that, what portion of water did you sub out with puree?

 

[Iluminameluna]

@Susie I used a 2:1 ratio of water to puree. I got that from another soaper that uses fruit puree in her recipes. Mind draws a blank on who it was.

 

[DeeAnna]

What Susie means is this -- Say the total water is 350 grams for your recipe and you decide you want to use 100 g of puree. You would subtract the weight of puree from the calculated water weight to get the actual water weight you'd want to use for that particular recipe.

In other words you'd use 100 g puree + 250 g water for my example. The total amount of water-based liquids should still total no more than 350 g.

You wouldn't want to use 100 g of puree and 350 g of water. If you did, your soap would be very soft. Since you say it is, that's why Susie is asking about how you handled the water and puree weights.

 

[Iluminameluna]

@DeeAnna Sorry, just realized I wasn't clear. I meant that I used a measure of water, what Soapcalc.org said to use, and subbed out the water for the puree at a 2:1 ratio. So, 2 parts water to one part puree.

 

[DeeAnna]

It sounds like you are on the right track! Thanks for explaining.