Beeswax Flop in CP Soap

[Destbmh]

I made a mistake in doing the heat transfer method with beeswax in my cold processed soap. The beeswax didn’t melt all the way before the soap batter started to trace heavily. Majority of it did but there was a good amount left unmelted. Will this affect the soap in any way? Can I use it and sell it like this? Any help would be appreciated!

 

[DeeAnna]

This soap will have bits of unmelted beeswax scattered throughout. That will affect the texture of the soap.

I personally wouldn't sell this soap -- it wouldn't be a product I would be comfortable selling to others. But you need to do what you think is best for you.

A hot lye solution cannot melt ingredients that melt at higher temperatures such as beeswax, stearic acid, rosin, etc. There isn't enough heat energy in the lye to accomplish this task. The so-called heat transfer method is best used for recipes that are mostly liquid oils with a relatively small amount of solid fat.

This method also has a high chance of not working well for recipes that are high in solid fats. My usual recipes call for 50-60% lard and the heat transfer method simply won't melt all that lard.

 

[Destbmh]

Wow. Noted. Thank you! What do you recommend I do with the soap? I didn’t feel comfortable with selling it. It’s a male fragrance. Could I give it to male friends and family use (with knowledge of the beeswax hiccup) it so it doesn’t go to waste?

 

[TheGecko]

Will this affect the soap in any way? Can I use it and sell it like this?

Yes. As noted by @DeeAnna, it will contain bits of unmelted beeswax it it, which will then go down the drain and potentially clog it. I wouldn't, but you do you...just let your customers know.

While the melting point of beeswax is around 150F and a freshly made Lye Solution with be around 200F-225F so it should melt the beeswax, the problem is that it's not the only thing it's melting. Now I don't use beeswax in my recipe, but I do use 60% hard oils which includes 10% each of cocoa and shea butter, and 20% each of palm and coconut oil. Because CO is the easiest to melt, a lot of the heat from the Lye Solution gets used on it first, followed by PO, SB an the CB. Mind you, I'm using wafers which are easier to melt and still they are always the very last to melt and by that time, the temp of my melted oil and lye solution is around maybe...150F. And if you are using the HTM with all your oils, then part of that heat is going to heating up your soft oils too.

You could rebatch the soap...melt it down in a crockpot or the oven or on the store. For myself, I'd just either use it myself or toss it as lessoned learned.

 

[DeeAnna]

Wow. Noted. Thank you! What do you recommend I do with the soap? I didn’t feel comfortable with selling it. It’s a male fragrance. Could I give it to male friends and family use (with knowledge of the beeswax hiccup) it so it doesn’t go to waste?

You need to do what you think is best. You might try a bar yourself first and see what you think. Nothing like being your own Crash Test Dummy, right?

I get the impression you've got quite a large batch of soap to deal with, which is unfortunate. I normally make a small batch -- maybe 16 oz / 500 grams of fats -- when I try a new ingredient. That means if the batch doesn't turn out well, I only have about 4 bars to deal with.

This is a big weakness of the "heat transfer" method, IMO. You don't necessarily know the batch is in trouble until it's too late to make a correction. If you'd warmed the beeswax and fats before adding the lye solution, you would have been able to verify the wax was fully melted before proceeding.

 

[cmzaha]

This is why I never soap with the Heat Transfer method. Like DeeAnna my go-to recipes were high solid oil recipes and they simply would not always melt. Of course, I only tried the method once and was not pleased that it would not melt the shea and tallow in my recipe. I would not give away or sell the soap but that is me, it is your choice. I would re-batch it and make sure the beeswax is melted. Being said, I would only rebatch in the oven since it will give a better melt than a crock pot, even then I would not sell the soap. Re-batching in a crockpot will not necessarily assure you have melted down all the beeswax.

 

[earlene]

Personally, I would not give away soap that might cause plumbing problems due to bits of beeswax. I have had to unclog too many pipes in my lifetime and would hate to contribute to such problems for other people.

Also, even if you tell them ahead of time, the first time they run into a blob of solid beeswax in a bar of soap, they may be so displeased with your soap that they may decide that artisan made soap is 'bad' and never want to try it again. It's bad for business (not just your own.)

I would, however, save a bar or two to test on my own, and probably rebatch the rest via HP. If you grate the soap, melting the solid bits of beeswax will be easier, especially if added to an HP batch of new soap batter. So rather than trying to rebatch the whole batch, I'd grate a few bars and add the shreds to a larger another HP soap batter while it is still heating. This ends up being confetti soap and can look really quite nice, depending on the color combinations and so forth.

 

[Bill S.]

A minor technical point I believe must be true is that no "open to the atmosphere" liquid water can be hotter than 212F, since that is the boiling point of water. The lye/water solution could not be hotter than that unless it's in a pressure vessel.

 

[Destbmh]

You need to do what you think is best. You might try a bar yourself first and see what you think. Nothing like being your own Crash Test Dummy, right?

I get the impression you've got quite a large batch of soap to deal with, which is unfortunate. I normally make a small batch -- maybe 16 oz / 500 grams of fats -- when I try a new ingredient. That means if the batch doesn't turn out well, I only have about 4 bars to deal with.

This is a big weakness of the "heat transfer" method, IMO. You don't necessarily know the batch is in trouble until it's too late to make a correction. If you'd warmed the beeswax and fats before adding the lye solution, you would have been able to verify the wax was fully melted before proceeding.

Thank you! I’m going to be sure to do a small batch. Before progressing with a larger batch. Lesson learned.

 

[Carly B]

I would shred the soap, and depending on the consistency, add a touch more liquid (oils, goat milk, aloe, whatever)
and remelt the whole thing, slowly, but long enough to ensure the wax had melted. Then plop it into molds and let it harden/cure.

 

[Destbmh]

I would shred the soap, and depending on the consistency, add a touch more liquid (oils, goat milk, aloe, whatever)
and remelt the whole thing, slowly, but long enough to ensure the wax had melted. Then plop it into molds and let it harden/cure.

Thanks for your input! How would you remelt it? I used heat transfer for the batch.

 

[SoapM0m]

Just FYI when I use the heat transfer method, I always melt my soy wax first before adding. It's too high of a melt point to melt with everything else - I found out the hard way. So next time you can try melting the beeswax first. I *love* the heat transfer method! Even with having to do the soy wax separately, it's still *so* much easier!

 

[cmzaha]

Thanks for your input! How would you remelt it? I used heat transfer for the batch.

May I ask why use the Heat Transfer method, why not just melt all your solid oils add in your liquid oils and proceed soaping? If you use an HDPE bucket or other microwave container you can melt your oils in the micro then add in your liquid oils which will help cool down your just melted oils. You will then have no worries with un-melted oils.

 

[earlene]

A minor technical point I believe must be true is that no "open to the atmosphere" liquid water can be hotter than 212F, since that is the boiling point of water. The lye/water solution could not be hotter than that unless it's in a pressure vessel.

I am not sure how this applies to this discussion, Bill. Lye solution is not simply liquid water, but a solution of lye in water, in this case NaOH in water. It is the very hot lye solution that is used to melt oils in the heat transfer method.

And when more than one ingredient is in the mix, the boiling point for the solution changes, as does the melting point for mixed oils, which is the issue here.

 

[bwtapestry]

Could you let the soap dry down then grate it and use for partial rebatch?

Am new to soaping this year. Had a wheatgerm oil beeswax soap that seized up into soap on a stick at trace. Long story short pushed it into a loaf mold and let it sit. When very dry grated it. Recently wanted to make a lard soap and decided to use up the wheat germ beeswax gratings. Added the wheatgerm beeswax soap gratings (one lb.) into 2 lbs of melted lard and stick blended over the heat on a double boiler until gratings were very finely mixed into the lard. Then added lye water and scent. I did not add any additional lye or water other than what soapcalc said to use for 2 lbs of lard.

Pictures of my partial rebatch wheatgerm beeswax soap into lard are attached. The little guest soaps became crumbly maybe because I poured them last after the big loaf. But big loaf slices appear to be drying down well. Tested one of the little bars and it lathers nicely and leaves skin feeling soft and smooth. Smells great too!

The wheatgerm recipe did not call for beeswax-that addition is how I got to the soap on a stick :/ Here is the wheatgerm recipe for those who may be curious. It came from thesage:
Coconut & Wheat Germ Oil Soap Test — Adventures With The Sage

Recipe in ounces: 5 oz Coconut Oil 11 oz Wheat Germ Oil 2.25 oz Sodium Hydroxide 6 fl oz water

 

[DeeAnna]

A minor technical point I believe must be true is that no "open to the atmosphere" liquid water can be hotter than 212F, since that is the boiling point of water. The lye/water solution could not be hotter than that unless it's in a pressure vessel.

You are correct that water boils at 212 F / 100 C at sea level. But we're talking about sodium hydroxide solutions, not water.

In the chart below, the diagonal lines are various NaOH solution concentrations. Since soap makers work at atmospheric pressure, the horizontal pink line shows atmospheric pressure. Find the point at which the NaOH concentration intersects with the atmospheric pressure. Follow that point of intersection directly downward to find the boiling point of that NaOH solution at that pressure.

The yellow line shows a 0% NaOH solution (aka plain water) at atmospheric pressure has a boiling point of 100 C / 212 F, just as you'd expect. The blue line shows a 30% NaOH solution at atmospheric pressure has a boiling point of about 117 C / 242 F.

Source: O'Brien, T. F., T. V. Bommaraju, F. Hine. Handbook of Chlor-Alkali Technology. Vol 1: Fundamentals. Appendix H: NaOH, pages 1516-1524. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bfm:978-0-306-48624-1/1.pdf

 

[DeeAnna]

Could you let the soap dry down then grate it and use for partial rebatch?

It might work, but I'd think you'd need to get the rebatch hot enough to melt the beeswax bits. If you don't, it's likely you'd still have beeswax bits in the rebatch. Admittedly smaller bits, but still bits.

 

[Carly B]

Thanks for your input! How would you remelt it? I used heat transfer for the batch.

I make rebatch using my microwave. I take a big glass measuring cup and fill it with shreds, some more liquid (this is where I add a lot of good stuff that would get lost during saponification), cover it and heat it at 50% power stirring every 30 seconds until it's all melted. It won't get pourable (unless you add too much liquid), but it will get like cooked oatmeal. You may have to heat it a bit longer because of the beeswax, but just watch it and stir periodically and it will be fine.

 

[Destbmh]

I make rebatch using my microwave. I take a big glass measuring cup and fill it with shreds, some more liquid (this is where I add a lot of good stuff that would get lost during saponification), cover it and heat it at 50% power stirring every 30 seconds until it's all melted. It won't get pourable (unless you add too much liquid), but it will get like cooked oatmeal. You may have to heat it a bit longer because of the beeswax, but just watch it and stir periodically and it will be fine.

Thank you!

 

[Marcia Thorne]

I don't use beeswax in soaps but I can see what you talking about. Personally I won't sell it nor give it away. I would shred it make a small batch of soap and add the shred to it making a confetti Soap. I once did that with a soap I had that went bad and it came out nicely. I will show you a pic