bar issues after 4ish months

Discussion in 'Beginners Soap Making Forum' started by LadySarah370, Sep 16, 2019.

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  1. Sep 16, 2019 #1

    LadySarah370

    LadySarah370

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    So I have noticed a little discoloring and what I think maybe glycerin rivers in my soap...
    1. Is that what it is?
    2. How did I do that?
    3. How do I get it not to happen again?

    Also, I have been doing farmers market and it rained the bars remained dry but the moisture seemed to make them a wee bit sticky. Did they do anything to them?
     

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  2. Sep 16, 2019 #2

    amd

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    1. Glycerin rivers.
    2. Could be more water or overheating that caused it.
    3. Use less water and soap cooler.

    The stickiness is common - it happens to my soaps in high humidity. Usually they're back to normal conditions once they get back home. Don't leave them in a tightly closed plastic container, you'll want to keep them somewhere they can breathe. They should be fine.

    If you don't know what glycerine rivers are, you might want to reconsider selling.
     
  3. Sep 16, 2019 #3

    LadySarah370

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    I was pretty sure that's what glycerin rivers were lol

    They were in an open cupboard.
     
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  4. Sep 16, 2019 #4

    amd

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  5. Sep 16, 2019 #5

    LadySarah370

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    Ok thank you for your opinion.

    I think there maybe a misunderstanding. The bars of soap that I referenced were 4 months old I have been soaping for a year. I have never had glycerin rivers until these two bars they seem to have only appeared recently. I was under the impression that I could ask questions and get some helpful tips. So I apologize if I sound like I am really inexperienced.
     
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  6. Sep 17, 2019 #6

    shunt2011

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    In March you said you’d made a few batches of soap. As stated you’ve not been making it long enough to not know what glycerin rivers were and how to correct it. Sorry but this is something I learned early on. If selling you need to know the inside and outside of your business. You won’t be asking beginners questions.
     
  7. Sep 17, 2019 #7

    LadySarah370

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    Ok thanks again.

    I admit that there is more for me to learn, which is why I posted in this forum. I don't have anyone else to ask. I did assume that this was glycerin rivers. Half of me really regrets posting this now.
     
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  8. Sep 17, 2019 #8

    jcandleattic

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    We understand that you assumed this was glycerin rivers and we hope you keep asking questions to gain the knowledge you need.

    Our position, however, is when soapmakers sell before they are ready, before they KNOW the answers to the questions you are asking, and know them without asking/assuming, then how do you know what your soap is going to be like down the road, when you are only guessing what the problem is now? What if you sold this bar before it looked like this, and a customer came to you asking what it is? Would you tell them to wait until you found out for sure what it was by asking more experienced soapers on forums? Would you guess and just tell them whatever you assumed it was?
    What if the bar developed DOS 7-9 months down the road. Would you know that? Since you have presumably only been making soap for 7 months (giving the benefit of the doubt that you started in February) how would you know your soaps are NOT going to develop DOS? Or other unknown problems...

    The thing is, if a soapmaker sells bad soap it not only reflects badly on that soapmaker but on ALL soapmakers. (not saying at all that yours is, just stating the case that if you don't know, it could be)
    If a consumer gets a bad handmade product from someone they are less likely to purchase again, from anyone, but especially not from where they got the bad product from.

    We are not trying to be harsh on you, or keep you from asking questions, just the opposite.
    We want you to learn and much as you can, so you can make and sell soap that you KNOW is great, and not just assume that it is.
     
  9. Sep 17, 2019 #9

    LadySarah370

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    I use all my soaps before selling them. I make sure the product is good before I sell it. There was some soap I made that was not beautiful but I did use it. I understand that I am representing the soapers as a community. I usually do know my product. I appreciate the help I just felt the first person was a bit harsh. I do appreciate the help I have gotten a lot of good help and info in this forum. Again there is a lot I can learn just thought it was just harshly done. I absolutely understand your points.
    DOS only happens with rancid oils. I have mine dated and know the exp dates also on the bottles. So I do not anticipate that happening. I have been soaping for a little over a year. I had researched a lot before I started soaping for a year. When I say researched I am a little ocd when I research things.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  10. Sep 17, 2019 #10

    cmzaha

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    You may think the soap is fantastic, but a customer may not think the same.

    DOS does not only happen with rancid oils. Which is one of the points made by jcandleattic.
    I have not had dos in my soap for several years since making a couple of additive changes and last week I found 2 partial batches with DOS. They were around 8 months old, and I have no idea why other than the hot humidity we are having. I have some soaps that are 4 yrs old with no dos. One of the soaps was the no slime castile soap which I tried, and I have never had DOS with OO soaps. I have also used oils that I knew were over 8 years old in soap which never had DOS issues. So no just knowing the dates of oils will not make a difference knowledge of the soap process.

    You also never know what a customer will ask and if they are just testing your knowledge, so one needs to know enough to answer. I used to have a customer that loved to throw off the wall soap questions at me to see what I would answer. It always surprised him I would know the answer. I am not a chemist or high intellect but I read and study what I am selling.

    No one was being harsh, just realistic.
     
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  11. Sep 17, 2019 #11

    LadySarah370

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    So then what does cause the dos? I get the point. I do agree there is a lot to learn still. I am wondering tho if you have gotten dos and I have been (let's say for sake of argument I have been doing this for a few years) if a customer was to get a soap and it had dos after several months. What would you do?
     
  12. Sep 17, 2019 #12

    jcandleattic

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    Many many things. There are oodles and oodles of threads right here on this board discussing DOS in detail.
    It can be caused by heat, humidity, moisture, old/rancid oils, atmosphere, being placed on metal racks for curing, certain oils are more prone to DOS, certain fragrances are more prone to DOS - it's one of those things that when you get it, you have to really analyze your process to figure it out, because it can be 1 thing, a combination of multiple things or something that is completely unknown.

    Refund, replace, explain and apologize.

    DOS, and glycerin rivers are not the only things that can be/go wrong in a soap (and glycerin rivers are not even really a problem, they are only aesthetic). Can you diagnose a lye heavy soap, can you diagnose a soap that dissolves too quickly, can you diagnose a potential problem before it happens just by looking at the soap? These are the types of questions you really should know the answers to without hesitation or even thinking about it before even considering selling.

    This is a good thread to read to know if you truly are ready or not.

    https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/are-you-ready-to-sell-your-soap.16002/
     
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  13. Sep 17, 2019 #13

    LadySarah370

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    Great thank you. Honestly I wish I had a real person to mentor me really. I have just been researching and following recipes and such. I know there is a lot to learn apart from what I have which is not as much as long time soapers. I will get there. I just love soap making. I have had a lye heavy soap once I assumed it was popped on here just to verify. I do not have a lot of confidence in life normally, so I always double check there could be something that I am missing. Experienced soapers know more than I do. I have only a little over a year. I have learned quite a bit. Not saying I know everything and I don't have more to learn I do need to learn. Some of it is just by doing. I had a batch I messed up on too the art wasn't right and I fogot to put fragerence in it, lol! I have watched so many videos and read so many books and read a bunch of blogs and posts. There is much info. I wish my gran was still alive she would have taught me....
     
  14. Sep 17, 2019 #14

    cmzaha

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    If they came back with it I would replace it. I sold a bar of soap to a customer this last weekend and I told her if she hates it to come back and pick another. It was an uber scrubby soap. Fortunately, she actually lives near the regular market I attend once a week but was at a market Sat night 50 miles away from where she lives. I have no issues with replacing or even giving away a soap.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
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  15. Sep 17, 2019 #15

    LadySarah370

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    Yeah, for sure keep the customer happy!

    Thanks for the thread I read it. Some I have done already others I need to work on :)
    e
     
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  16. Sep 18, 2019 #16

    LadySarah370

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    Can you guys give some suggestions on how to do a water discount. I have been terrified to play with it but I am guessing that maybe contributing to the glycerin rivers.
     
  17. Sep 18, 2019 #17

    DeeAnna

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    There's zero reason to be terrified of using less water in your recipes. Totally ignore the common advice for newer soapers to stay away from "water discount." Adjusting the amount of water in a soap recipe is no different than tweaking the amount of sugar when making a cake. You aren't going to blow anything up or turn radioactive or anything horrible like that. ;)

    Here's the short version of my advice -- https://classicbells.com/soap/waterRatioConc.asp
    Longer version -- https://classicbells.com/soap/waterInSoap.asp
     
  18. Sep 18, 2019 #18

    amd

    amd

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    I would also stay away from the term "water discount" - there really isn't a definition for what you are discounting from. I would rather say "changing lye concentration" and then it's clearly defined what you are doing by using the words "raising" or "lowering". Now if I get the rest of the world to do this...

    Changing the lye concentration is as easy as plugging in a different number.
    When using lye concentration the higher % number, the less water is used. E.g. 25% concentration has more water, 33% has less water, 38% has even less water.
    When using water to lye ratio the higher the first number (water) the more water is used. The second number is your lye, it should always be 1. E.g. 3:1 ratio has more water, 2:1 has less water, 1.7:1 has even less water.

    So for your current recipe, if you are using 33% lye concentration (I don't know, but let's just say for example sake), to reduce the water amount, you could change the recipe to 35% lye concentration in a calc. I would change in small increments, while might seem like 1 or 2% is a small amount, it may be all that's needed. Also... how are you mixing your colorants? If you are using water, or water soluble TD, you will want to count that in your total water amount if wanting to help control glycerin rivers.

    Temperature (I think) will also affect glycerin rivers, so you'll want to watch your soaping and resting temps. But maybe I shouldn't try to give advice about preventing glycerin rivers because I've never done it - I like them so I let the soap do what it's going to do.
     
  19. Sep 18, 2019 #19

    Mistrael

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    Awww, no regrets! If it makes you feel any better, I'm a total noob and found this whole thread very interesting. :thumbs:
     
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